Subject: [6tisch-security] scheduling 6tisch security calls through March 6th, 2015 - please read and act on Doodle poll prior to Monday noon EST (Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12pm EST)

From: Rene Struik <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 14:58:06 -0500

Dear colleagues:

I would like to solicit your feedback on the best times for 6tisch 
security conf calls for the next few calls.

Please note that participants are from many different time zones, 
ranging from PST time, EST time, Paris time, to Japan time.
The only times that allow everyone in the time zones above sleep/private 
time in the 12am-6am time window (wherever they are) are 9am-10am EST, 
5-6pm EST, 4.30-5.30pm EST.

If we cannot agree on a time, we have to use a rotating schedule that 
inevitably disadvantages some considerably, since putting some people in 
the "middle of the night" block.

My suggested times are below, where option #a below seems best. I would 
like you to weigh-into this, though, so please take the Doodle poll 
(link below).

_Please note that next week's call will be Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST 
(i.e., follows option #a)._ This is to have sufficient advance warning 
for next week.

_There will be no call in the week March 9-13, 2015 (IEEE 802 meeting, 
Berlin; I-D cut-off Mon 8pm EST)_

a) The table below shows how different times impact different participants
              PST        EST      Paris      Japan
#A:      1.30p     4.30p   10.30p  6.30a
#B:     2p           5p         11p       7a
#C:     6a           9a            3p    11p
#D:     8a         11a            5p      1a

b) Suggested schedule (all calls at most one hour):
time:     4.30pm-5.30pm EST {Schedule #A above}
dates: Tue Jan 20th onwards, with once a week frequency {may be reduced 
to once every two weeks longer-term (to get more work done in-between 
calls)}

*Please confirm availability at these times via the Doodle link by end 
of *Monday* January 19, 2015, 11:59am EST*
{The Doodle poll mentions all options #A-#D above (relative to EST), and 
you can indicate Yes/No/Maybe for each of the dates}

https://doodle.com/q63844gqd59urrae

Please be mindful of others than yourself, whose biological clock we 
should also take into account.

If you have comments, please do *not* pollute the 6tisch mailing list, 
but just send a private note, *keeping the same subject title* of the email.
<http://doodle.com/2cg4p34x3c3uca55>

==
email: [email-masked] | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | 
US: +1 (415) 690-7363

---

From: Tero Kivinen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 15:35:47 +0200

Rene Struik writes:
> inevitably disadvantages some considerably, since putting some people in the
> "middle of the night" block.

At least for me it is much easier to organize fixed time so that I can
be available than try to get different time available for each week.

And middle of the night blocks works for me much better than early
morning or even during the day (i.e. best times for me are 19:00-02:00
EET, i.e. 12:00-19:00 EST).

Unfortunately from 17th of February forward I already have 802.15.9
BRC teleconf starting 00:00 EET, i.e. 17:00 EST.

> Please note that next week's call will be Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm EST (i.e.,
> follows option #a). This is to have sufficient advance warning for next week.

Would people be interested hearing what security changes there will be
in the 802.15.4-2015 revision? We had lots of discussion last week in
the IEEE SC-M about the security and we did decide to do some bigger
changes, most notably we are are going to add new level of security
filtering in the MAC, so MAC can be configured for each information
elements, whether it will be processed or not.

This does affect information elements used in the TSCH. If that would
be useful I could try to give some kind of summary of things changing. 
-- 
[email-masked]

---

From: Rene Struik <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:19:22 -0500

Hi Tero:

If you can prepare some material, I could add this to the agenda for the 6tisch security call.

Please note that the first technical item on the agenda (after approval of minutes) is to discuss a snippet of text that can end up in the 6tisch architecture document. Given past experiences, I expect that item to take the entire hour. So, we will most likely not get to your potential contribution this week.

Best regards, Rene

==
Would people be interested hearing what security changes there will be
in the 802.15.4-2015 revision?

-- 
email: [email-masked] | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363

---

From: Tero Kivinen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 18:01:52 +0200

> the 6tisch security call. 

As the call is tomorrow, I am not sure how much I can prepare, most
likely just cut & paste some of the material we had in the IEEE
meeting. 

> Please note that the first technical item on the agenda (after
> approval of minutes) is to discuss a snippet of text that can end up
> in the 6tisch architecture document. Given past experiences, I
> expect that item to take the entire hour. So, we will most likely
> not get to your potential contribution this week. 

Ah, I have not seen the agenda for tomorrows call. Where was it sent?
Your email I replied to didn't have agenda attached.

As I am very busy with other 802.15 stuff this week, then I am not
going to prepare the material if we do not have time to go through
them tomorrow (I have 2 BRC calls today, and one more on Wednesday,
and need to start rewriting the 802.15.4 security processing state
machines as we agreed last week, and also of course go through the
last 802.15.9 letter ballot comments).
-- 
[email-masked]

---

From: Rene Struik <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 11:58:11 -0500

Hi Tero:

As to agenda for tomorrow, this has not finalized yet, but a natural 
progression of discussions at the previous call (as worded in the minutes).

Please note that 6tisch is currently based on 802.15.4-2011 only, so any 
"802.15 quo vadis" discussions are only informative at this point in time.

Best regards, Rene

---

From: Rene Struik <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 10:46:19 -0500

Dear colleagues:

Thanks to those who participated in the Doodle poll.

The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as 
follows:
Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST

How to remember this?
a) rhyme scheme: pappaap (where, a = morning call; p = afternoon call)
b) alternative: section (where vowel = morning call; consonant = 
afternoon call)

Notes:
- all 6tisch security conference calls have duration not exceeding one hour
- 6tisch security conference calls may be cancelled if there is no need

==

On 1/16/2015 2:58 PM, Rene Struik wrote:
> The only times that allow everyone in the time zones above 
> sleep/private time in the 12am-6am time window (wherever they are) are 
> 9am-10am EST, 5-6pm EST, 4.30-5.30pm EST.
>
> inevitably disadvantages some considerably, since putting some people 
> in the "middle of the night" block.
>
> My suggested times are below, where option #a below seems best. I 
> would like you to weigh-into this, though, so please take the Doodle 
> poll (link below).
>
> _Please note that next week's call will be Tue Jan 20, 2015, 4.30pm 
> EST (i.e., follows option #a)._ This is to have sufficient advance 
> warning for next week.
>
> dates: Tue Jan 20th onwards, with once a week frequency {may be 
> reduced to once every two weeks longer-term (to get more work done 
> in-between calls)}
>
> {The Doodle poll mentions all options #A-#D above (relative to EST), 
> and you can indicate Yes/No/Maybe for each of the dates}
>
> email: [email-masked] | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 
> | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
>

---

From: Tero Kivinen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 22:17:33 +0200

> progression of discussions at the previous call (as worded in the minutes).

Ok. 

> "802.15 quo vadis" discussions are only informative at this point in time.

Hardly possible. 802.15.4-2011 did not have TSCH or Information
Elements etc, so doing 6tisch based on only that is impossible.

So in addition to the 802.15.4-2011 you need at least 802.15.4e-2012
and perhaps also some others (I do not know if you need any other
amendments).

802.15.4-2015 will include 802.15.4-2011 and 802.15.4e-2012 in
addition to other amendments published between revisions, and in
addition to that the maintenance standing committee will do other
fixes and corrections. Some of those corrections are to the TSCH parts
of the specification, some information elements processing rules, some
to the security processing etc.

I think it would be better to look at the 802.15.4-2015 and use that
version when it comes out (perhaps end of summer 2015 or so) than try
to use 802.15.4-2011 and other amendments published after that
separately. 
-- 
[email-masked]

---

From: Rene Struik <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 15:34:31 -0500

Hi Tero:

Of course, I meant 802.15.4-2011 and 802.15.4e-2012 - a simple typo (as 
I am sure you also know).

Rene

---

From: Tero Kivinen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 12:56:22 +0200

> I am sure you also know).

And are you sure you do not need any of the other amendments? And no, I
do not know answer to this, as I do not know where 6tisch is going to
be used, and I have not really checked the amendmens separtely to see
what they add. I have only really worked on the maintenance release
which includes all of them, so I do not know which amendments changed
what.

Anyways, as I pointed out earlier most of the fixes in the security
there is going to on in the maintenance release is because of
802.15.4e, i.e. fixing the security processing of the information
elements. Because of that I would think 802.15.4-2015 discussion would
be very relevant to the security processing of the 6tisch, at least if
you want make it secure.
-- 
[email-masked]

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 13:43:55 -0500

> The schedule for the next few 6tisch security conference calls is as follows:
    > Tue Jan 20th: 4.30pm EST
    > Tue Jan 27th: 9am EST
    > Tue Feb 3rd: 4.30pm EST
    > Tue Feb 10th: 4.30pm EST
    > Tue Feb 17th: 9am EST
    > Tue Feb 24th: 9am EST
    > Tue Mar 3rd: 4.30pm EST

I have put this into my calendar, if you would like me to add you as a
part of the invite, please unicast me.

--
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-