Subject: [72attendees] 72nd - T-shirt Pick Up

From: Marcia Beaulieu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:31:07 +0100

The cut-off for t-shirt collection is 17:30 today (Thursday, July 31,  
2008).  Please ensure you collect your shirt from the Alcatel-Lucent  
desk by that time. Only a limited stock of size XL still available.

There will be no t-shirt distribution on Friday.

Please also feel free to pick up an event poster.

Regards,

Alcatel-Lucent
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---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:59:47 +0100

Hi,

I'm not sure if this is done when doing the registration, but I recall in
some conference registration, asking the participant for the size of the
t-shirt, in order to do a better allocation of how many of each size are
required.

Usually I pick up my t-shirt in all the meetings when I do the registration
on Sunday. However this time it was not ready. So I tried to pick up the
t-shirt this week several times and the answer was always, "I'm sorry it is
too late today", "I'm sorry again is too late because we need to go to the
plenary" and so on ... Really unfair and bad service, specially because the
original message didn't indicated "you can pick-up it from xxx to yyy", so
we can organize ourselves in when doing so. I told them very clearly "sorry,
if you want to provide the service and the t-shirt, do it correctly,
otherwise, better don't do it".

This morning I finally was able to get it, and suprise, only XL was
available, when my size is S, even some times XS. Clearly M, cold do, but L
or XL definitively not.

I hope we can do it much better next time and be fair with everybody.

Regards,
Jordi

> From: Marcia Beaulieu <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: <[email-masked]>
> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:31:07 +0100
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Subject: [72attendees] 72nd - T-shirt Pick Up
> 

**********************************************
The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org

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This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:11:10 -0400

--On Thursday, 31 July, 2008 16:59 +0100 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> I'm not sure if this is done when doing the registration, but
> I recall in some conference registration, asking the
> participant for the size of the t-shirt, in order to do a
> better allocation of how many of each size are required.

As long as one can figure out what "size" means, since there is
no international standard t-shirt sizing system or even much of
an inter-manufacturer one.

    john

---

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:25:20 -0700 (PDT)

Jordi,

I am sure the T-shirt allocation and distribution could be improved, 
but I feel compelled to point out that it is NOT a requirement that
the host provide the T-shirts. It is something they can choose to do.
In the past, you only got a T-shirt if you paid for the social ticket, 
that has been extended to "everyone" more recently.

Ole

Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: [email-masked]  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj

---

From: "KHATRI PARESH" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 00:15:24 +0800

Let's charter a tshirt WG so that we can sort this out once and for all
;-)

Paresh

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2008 5:11 PM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [72attendees] 72nd - T-shirt Pick Up

    john

---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:41:40 +0100

Well, its not quite recently, I think it has been like that for years.

And right, but if they host decide to provide something, I think it is clear
it should be done correctly, not in an unfair way, closing the table when
they decide, without a previous announcement.

Is not a matter of the value of the t-shirt, is a matter of being fair and
coherent. Which in my opinion this meeting proved we aren't too much in many
aspects, unfortunately I must say has been the worst meeting I ever
attended. Of course, a personal view.

Regards,
Jordi

> From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:25:20 -0700 (PDT)
> To: Jordi Palet Martínez <[email-masked]>
> Cc: <[email-masked]>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the
>> individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware
>> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> information, including attached files, is prohibited.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Bye 6Bone. Hi, IPv6 !
http://www.ipv6day.org

---

From: Tim Chown <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:04:54 +0100

I've never had a problem getting a T-shirt.   

But here's a suggestion.   If the IETF is looking for funds, have a
look at running off extra T-shirts or bags and sell them via some 
appropriate online place.   I would certainly buy T-shirts for some
of the meetings I've missed, and the most recent bag is pretty nice.

This might need some negotiation with the sponsor if they pay for the
main freebie run, but it could work perhaps?

Tim

So if the IETF

-- 
Tim

---

From: Andrew Sullivan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:09:12 +0100

Dear colleagues,

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 05:41:40PM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> unfortunately I must say has been the worst meeting I ever

I have a different personal view.  

I thank the hosts, the hotel, and the AMS staff for an enjoyable and
productive week.  While I was not carried about on a litter with rose
petals thrown in my path while faeries made sure that I was able to
control any network for 80 kms around, and while the temperature was
not controlled to my personal specification 24 hours a day, I
nevertheless found the hotel staff helpful and cheerful, the
facilities pleasant, and the operation of meetings smooth and
well-planned.  I can think of many events and meetings to which I have
been that were quite a bit worse.  Perhaps my experience is an
outlier.

The only real sour note has been the discovery that some people
normally live in a world completely arranged for their convenience.
I'm envious.

Best regards,

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
[email-masked]
+1 503 667 4564 x104
http://www.commandprompt.com/
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---

From: Marc Blanchet <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:11:28 +0100

+1. Marc.

> normally live in a world completely arranged for their convenience.

-----
IPv6 book: Migrating to IPv6, Wiley, http://www.ipv6book.ca

---

From: Patrik Fältström <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:21:19 +0100

Indeed.

I had to talk with Marcia a few minutes ago and complain. I have now,  
for 48 hours or so, been looking for trouble. But, nothing. The coffee  
has been good. No lines in the bar. Guinness arrived promptly.  
Temperature have been good. No lines for food. Good food. Nice  
company. T-Shirt was available when I asked for one. Signes where  
correct. The grass was combed. The sun was polished. Cheese was  
mature. IP-Packets where flowing. Etc etc.

I really thank for a very good meeting. Sure, problems in the  
beginning, one broken elevator in the golf hotel (but there are  
stairs), but hey!

I will be hard for me helping with the Stockholm IETF, as I am nervous  
we will not be able to do something better.

But, we will do the best we can!

     Patrik

---

From: Tim Chown <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:22:42 +0100

+1

I think given the limitation of the out of town venue, it's been a very
good event.   The wireless has been excellent, the rooms well sized, and
easy to get between.   Lots of bar space to sit down and have ad-hoc
chats/meetings.   And quite beautiful surroundings.

I think where there have been reasonable 'complaints' the staff have been
very good in responding to them, e.g. in increasing food variety at
lunchtime, and in extra busses being laid on.   Even cheap airport busses 
arranged throughout Friday.

Very friendly staff too - last night one of the receptionists went running
out into the rain to grab a minibus driver to take a bunch of us down to
the golf hotel to save us getting wet - she didn't need to do that but a 
great example of the hospitality here.

The odd thing is I never saw a golfer anywhere, on or off the course.
So I'm sure they could have let us play with the buggies :)

Tim

-- 
Tim

---

From: Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:22:39 +0100

+1.
This was a very efficient venue for an IETF meeting.

E.g.:
-- Kingswood Suite: enough tables to hold significant hallway meetings  
(although some more AC power would have helped).
-- Reasonably organized restaurants (cheaper would have been nice,  
some basic education of the staff about gastronomic fundamentals like  
"halal" or "kosher" might have helped).

I have enough other little items to complain about, but again, in  
total, this was a very *efficient* meeting.
We got *work done*, and the venue helped much more than it hindered.
This is what counts for me.

Gruesse, Carsten

---

From: Joerg Ott <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:26:15 +0300

Besides the working conditions and the friendly and helpful
staff, I also enjoyed the many tables outside allowing to catch
a bit of fresh air every now and then over coffee or when having
a meeting (quite a luxury :-)

Surely: +1

Joerg

---

From: Stewart Bryant <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:39:33 +0100

Great venue, great staff, great food, a good room and no problems with 
the network.

I hope we come back again.

Thanks to all.

Stewart

---

From: "Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:10:27 +0300

Jordi,

Like Ole said, the T-shirts are extra that the host may, or may not provide.
I think we actually had a meeting without official T-shirts during my time
in the IETF. I think it was in Australia. So, don't plan your wardrobe based
on the IETF T-shirts.

T-shirt sizes are a black magic of its own. As the T-shirts are the
responsibility of the host, the next host has to start from scratch and
estimate the T-shirt size distribution if they don't get the last time's
distribution. So, sometimes the size distribution might not be 100% correct.
This has been the case always in the IETF.

This time, the host very clearly informed that the T-shirts are coming on
Tuesday, and they also informed this list when they would be available. I
think that was very good. I'm sure there were enough possibilities to get
your T-shirt. 

I am sorry that your meeting was ruined by getting a wrong size T-shirt.
Maybe for the next meeting, remember that you might want to be early for the
T-shirts, if they are very important for you.

Cheers,

Jonne.

On 7/31/08 7:41 PM, "ext JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that
> any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

-- 
Jonne Soininen
Nokia Siemens Networks

Tel: +358 40 527 46 34
E-mail: [email-masked]

---

From: "David B Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:19:13 +0100

+1

Despite multiple small annoyances with the hotel facilities early in
the week, they resolved most problems very quickly, and the IETF staff
and volunteers were amazing at making the venue a highly productive
one.

Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.

David Harrington
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

> From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:23 PM
> To: Andrew Sullivan
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [72attendees] Some thanks (was: 72nd - T-shirt Pick Up)
> 
> +1.

---

From: "Ahmad Muhanna" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:25:29 -0500

+1

We all come with different expectations, IMO, the most important thing
is that all the people involved, the host, the hotel staff, the IETF
volunteers were doing their best to offer a comfortable and productive
meeting environment.

Again, for that I would say one more time, "A big Thanks you to all!"

Regards,
Ahmad

> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of David B Harrington
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:19 PM
> To: 'Carsten Bormann'; 'Andrew Sullivan'
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Despite multiple small annoyances with the hotel facilities 
> early in the week, they resolved most problems very quickly, 
> and the IETF staff and volunteers were amazing at making the 
> venue a highly productive one.
> 
> Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.
> 
> David Harrington
> [email-masked]
> [email-masked]
> [email-masked]
> 
>

---

From: Tony Hansen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:30:00 -0400

> in the IETF. I think it was in Australia. So, don't plan your wardrobe based

In Australia, we got 2 shirts!  The unofficial one we paid for ourselves 
because there wasn't going to be an official one, and then someone 
decided to sponsor an official one that was delivered after the plenary.

The unofficial Aussie shirt is still my favorite.

	Tony Hansen

---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:34:39 +0100

Don't misquote me. I didn't say the t-shirt ruined the meeting, its just one
more point. But it is not true that enough information was provided, as they
didn't indicated that they will close the distribution of the t-shirts at a
given time, so in my case, I was not able to plan accordingly.

Is like if there is a decision to close down the cookies delivery 30 minutes
ahead of the plenary, without telling the participants. Will not be the end
of the world, but it will be one more disappointing issue.

Regards,
Jordi

> From: "Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo)" <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: <[email-masked]>
> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:10:27 +0300
> To: Jordi Palet Martínez <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]"
> <[email-masked]>
>> that

Bye 6Bone. Hi, IPv6 !
http://www.ipv6day.org

---

From: "Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:35:42 +0300

Tony,

My unofficial T-shirt has worn off already long ago. However, we didn't
really get those, we paid for it.

It was true that Siemens did deliver some T-shirts after the plenary.
However, only the good boys and girls who went to the plenary got it. I
still have mine.. ;)

Cheers,

Jonne.

-- 
Jonne Soininen
Nokia Siemens Networks

Tel: +358 40 527 46 34

---

From: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:31:33 -0700

Jordi,

I have to respectfully disagree with you - obviously you don't  
remember some of the more "memorable" events, or you just weren't  
there.  While this wasn't the best meeting ever, it was far from the  
worst.  I also find it somewhat astounding that you are trying to  
punish the host because they didn't hand your your gift (the T-shirt)  
in a manner that you wanted.  That is, to say the least, an  
"interesting" behavior.  I wonder if you do the same for people who  
give you personal gifts?  If so, I would warn them in advance.

If I were planning to host in the future, given the traffic on this  
list from this meeting, I would take the following messages away:
1) Leave the hotel rooms on the hotel 4 Mbps DSL network - don't touch  
it, you'll get panned
2) Don't bring t-shirts or other giveaways, as people expect get the  
exact count of various sizes, even if they register at the meeting,  
and will grouse when the people staffing the table actually have other  
things to do (so you need some one who does nothing but babysit the  
table for the entire meeting).

Also, frankly, if I can walk out on a week hotel bill in Spain for no  
reason other than some surely behavior from the staff, the lack of tap  
water, the occasional cold shower, and having to "gasp" walk up and  
down the stairs because one of the elevators is down... I know I'm  
going to vacation in Spain... and never do business there.

Respectfully,
Chris

On 31 Jul 2008, at 09.41, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:

> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged  
> or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of  
> the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient  
> be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the  
> contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
>
>
>

- ---
李柯睿
Check my PGP key here:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCB67593B

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:16:06 +0000

I provided the Host the T-shirt size numbers based on the extrapolation of the experience of a_ previous Host some time ago. 

Not their fault. We will find another way to determine sizes. 

These are nice shirts. 

Ray
IAD
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:10:27 
To: ext JORDI PALET MARTINEZ<[email-masked]>; [email-masked]<[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [72attendees] 72nd - T-shirt Pick Up

Jordi,

Cheers,

Jonne.

-- 
Jonne Soininen
Nokia Siemens Networks

Tel: +358 40 527 46 34

---

From: Hans Kruse <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:20:38 -0400

+1.  Good hotel, good service, productive meeting.

> IPv6 book: Migrating to IPv6, Wiley, http://www.ipv6book.ca

Hans Kruse, Professor
J. Warren McClure School of Information and Telecommunication Systems
Adjunct Associate Professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer  
Science
292 Lindley Hall, Ohio University, Athens, OH, 45701
740-593-4891 voice, 740-593-4889 fax

---

From: "Monique Morrow (mmorrow)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 01:26:43 +0200

I second that !

/m

Monique Jeanne Morrow
SP APAC CTO/Distinguished Consulting Engineer

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] on behalf of Stewart Bryant (stbryant)
Sent: Thu 7/31/2008 10:39 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [72attendees] Some thanks

Thanks to all.

Stewart

---

From: Henk Uijterwaal <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:17:05 +0200

Thanks for posting this, Andrew, I fully support this.

Henk

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From: Kurt Erik Lindqvist <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:36:56 +0200

Well said! Thanks to Alcatel-Lucent, the volunteers and the  
secretariat for a well run meeting! I personally enjoyed the venue and  
found the location beautiful! Something to long for when we walk down  
the endless corridors in MPLS....

- - kurtis -

Best regards,

- - kurtis -