Subject: Re: [72attendees] In-room network

From: "Abhijit Choudhury (achoudhu)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:00:06 -0700

Do they provide an ethernet cable ? Or are we expected to get our own ?

Abhijit
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 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Theo Zourzouvillys [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Saturday, July 26, 2008 12:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
To:	Ben Campbell
Cc:	[email-masked]
Subject:	Re: [72attendees] In-room network

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Ben Campbell <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Is the citywest in-room network working for anyone? If so, does your
> Ethernet cable plug directly to the wall socket or to a separate DSL modem?

Yup, it's fine for me.

annoyed i forget my WRT54GS, and now stuck next with sitting at the
desk in the room :/

 ~ Theo
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From: "Alexander Mayrhofer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:57:59 +0200

> Yup, it's fine for me.

I got in my room still between 30 and 80% packet loss around 1pm, so it
might vary with the actual location of your room..

Alex

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:14:03 -0400

Tonight from my room, I get connection failures for AIM, but jabber,  
ssh, http, etc., all work fine. It sounds like port blockage to me.

Marshall

---

From: Vint Cerf <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:24:02 -0400

Folks,

it would be helpful just to have a summary of what is presently  
intended in the way of services on the hotel room network.
If ports (specific services) are blocked, could we have some  
indication what they are so we don't waste time trying to debug  
problems.

I have not been able to run iCHAT successfully, nor build VPN  
connections - first noticing this about 10 pm on Monday night local  
time.

File transfers were operating at about 13 KB/s but came to a grinding  
halt after about 50% of a 1.5 MB file was transferred. Eventually the  
transfer completed.

I am in the 16XX room block.

This is NOT a complaint but rather just a request to know what  
services are intended to be support on the room network.

thanks,

vint

---

From: Tony Hansen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:36:53 -0400

+1

Note: I'm in the 48xx block. IPsec was working fine up for me until some 
time last night.

	Tony Hansen

Vint Cerf wrote:
> 
> it would be helpful just to have a summary of what is presently intended 
> in the way of services on the hotel room network.
> If ports (specific services) are blocked, could we have some indication 
> what they are so we don't waste time trying to debug problems.
> 
> connections - first noticing this about 10 pm on Monday night local time.
> 
> This is NOT a complaint but rather just a request to know what services 
> are intended to be support on the room network.

---

From: Antoin Verschuren <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:07:30 +0200 (CEST)

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008, Vint Cerf wrote:

> I have not been able to run iCHAT successfully, nor build VPN connections - 
> first noticing this about 10 pm on Monday night local time.
>
> File transfers were operating at about 13 KB/s but came to a grinding halt 
> after about 50% of a 1.5 MB file was transferred. Eventually the transfer 
> completed.
>

I'm in the 15xx room block, having this 4 port switch/DSL router on my 
desk serving both IPTV and Internet connection.
Appart from a 10 second problem when I entered the room on Saturday (I had 
to unplug the IPTV for me to get an DHCP request through, and get an IP 
address. Pluging the IPTV back in continued to work for me) the network 
remained reasonable for a hotel network.

I've been able to set up OpenVPN over UDP port 1194, have not tried TCP 
yet, and it allows me to stream UDP with a "reasonable" quality. 512 k 
during busy times, 2048 k during quiet times. (Just testing, not 
abusing the network :-) only some hickups).
I have been able to set up SSL VPN, no issues.
I have been using jabber, skype, TCP streaming to watch some news back 
home, no problems.

There have been some hickups in the IPTV system on sunday though, causing 
the TV to freeze and switch off every 15 minutes.

So even though I'm quite a high demanding customer, I'm reasonable happy.
I think a working in-room network should be not an extra, but a 
requirement, but I realise it's not that easy for our crowd. Be happy it's 
an IETF meeting and not an ICANN, where in-room Internet access is not 
even considdered.

And as Kurtis said, if you think you can do better, please prove so.
Finding a venue for 1200+ people in Europe is hard enough allready.
Just my 2p to get things clear on what's working and what's not.

Antoin

---

From: Vint Cerf <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:17:15 -0400

as of about 1:15 pm, I am able to open up iCHAT connections but L2TP  
is still not working for me on the hotel network.

room 16XX

vint

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:24:17 -0400

Something that I did not mention that is relevant is that I was using  
AIM from the room Sunday night.

So, something changed over 24 hours.

Regards
Marshall

On Jul 29, 2008, at 7:29 AM, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote:

> --On Monday, July 28, 2008 08:14:03 PM -0400 Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked] 
> > wrote:
>
>> Tonight from my room, I get connection failures for AIM, but  
>> jabber, ssh,
>> http, etc., all work fine. It sounds like port blockage to me.
>
> Really?  Have you collected any data that shows that your packets  
> are not getting through?  Or are you simply assuming that if it  
> doesn't work, it must be because the port is blocked?
>
> Someone noted earlier that the hotel's NAT seems to be allocating a  
> different outside IP address for each outgoing "connection" (which,  
> for UDP, often means each packet).  There are certainly a lot of UDP- 
> based protocols that that will break, if it's true (I'm not entirely  
> convinced, because I run things that it _should_ break pretty badly  
> but that seem to work fine).
>
> FWIW, I've also noticed AIM breaking from behind other NAT's lately,  
> which may indicate the protocol is NAT-unfriendly in some way.  That  
> would be news to me, but then, it's not a protocol I use often, and  
> I avoid NAT's when I can.
>
> Of course, it's also possible that some people's VPN connections are  
> breaking because they expect to use a particular port, either for  
> tunneled traffic or for IKE, or because they expect to use a  
> protocol for which the NAT cannot multiplex multiple connections.   
> Those of us who've done this a few times presumably know about these  
> pitfalls by now, but there will always be someone who's never  
> encountered the problem before.
>
>
> I would suggest that if folks are having problems getting particular  
> protocols to work, that they collect as much data as possible about  
> what is going on and then report the problem to the hotel.  Maybe  
> one of the NOC folks can give us an idea of what sorts of data are  
> most useful.
>
> -- Jeff

---

From: Vint Cerf <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:27:13 -0400

AIM seems to be working now in room block 16XX

v

On Jul 29, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> Something that I did not mention that is relevant is that I was  
> using AIM from the room Sunday night.
>
>> --On Monday, July 28, 2008 08:14:03 PM -0400 Marshall Eubanks  
>> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>> Someone noted earlier that the hotel's NAT seems to be allocating  
>> a different outside IP address for each outgoing  
>> "connection" (which, for UDP, often means each packet).  There are  
>> certainly a lot of UDP-based protocols that that will break, if  
>> it's true (I'm not entirely convinced, because I run things that  
>> it _should_ break pretty badly but that seem to work fine).
>>
>> FWIW, I've also noticed AIM breaking from behind other NAT's  
>> lately, which may indicate the protocol is NAT-unfriendly in some  
>> way.  That would be news to me, but then, it's not a protocol I  
>> use often, and I avoid NAT's when I can.
>>
>> Of course, it's also possible that some people's VPN connections  
>> are breaking because they expect to use a particular port, either  
>> for tunneled traffic or for IKE, or because they expect to use a  
>> Those of us who've done this a few times presumably know about  
>> these pitfalls by now, but there will always be someone who's  
>> never encountered the problem before.
>>
>>
>> I would suggest that if folks are having problems getting  
>> particular protocols to work, that they collect as much data as  
>> possible about what is going on and then report the problem to the  
>> hotel.  Maybe one of the NOC folks can give us an idea of what  
>> sorts of data are most useful.
>>
>> -- Jeff
>

---

From: Richard Pruss <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:51:45 +0100

IPSec/UDP is working again.  Thanks to our hosts for taking on  
repairing this for us, I understand it was outside your  
responsibilities. Thanks for the extra effort,
Ric

---

From: "LANGE Andrew" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:05:19 -0500

The hotel has been very responsive to our needs.  They jumped on this issues this morning as soon as they came in.

The fix for PPTP passthrough broke IPSec/UDP, since the internal IP's were not set to always map to the same external IP.  This caused multiple sessions from the same host to get mapped to multiple external IPs. This has been fixed.  It's good to hear confirmation that this has cleared up the problem.

The hotel has not been blocking any ports out since we have arrived.  We've arranged for as clear a pipe as possible without breaking their other systems. 

Andrew

---

From: Jeffrey Hutzelman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:29:40 +0100

--On Monday, July 28, 2008 08:14:03 PM -0400 Marshall Eubanks 
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> Tonight from my room, I get connection failures for AIM, but jabber, ssh,

Really?  Have you collected any data that shows that your packets are not 
getting through?  Or are you simply assuming that if it doesn't work, it 
must be because the port is blocked?

Someone noted earlier that the hotel's NAT seems to be allocating a 
different outside IP address for each outgoing "connection" (which, for 
UDP, often means each packet).  There are certainly a lot of UDP-based 
protocols that that will break, if it's true (I'm not entirely convinced, 
because I run things that it _should_ break pretty badly but that seem to 
work fine).

FWIW, I've also noticed AIM breaking from behind other NAT's lately, which 
may indicate the protocol is NAT-unfriendly in some way.  That would be 
news to me, but then, it's not a protocol I use often, and I avoid NAT's 
when I can.

Of course, it's also possible that some people's VPN connections are 
breaking because they expect to use a particular port, either for tunneled 
traffic or for IKE, or because they expect to use a protocol for which the 
NAT cannot multiplex multiple connections.  Those of us who've done this a 
few times presumably know about these pitfalls by now, but there will 
always be someone who's never encountered the problem before.

I would suggest that if folks are having problems getting particular 
protocols to work, that they collect as much data as possible about what is 
going on and then report the problem to the hotel.  Maybe one of the NOC 
folks can give us an idea of what sorts of data are most useful.

-- Jeff

---

From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:29:30 +0100

I've just noticed aim plain old breaking down, even with globally  
routable ip addresses at home. I think it's not safe to assume that an  
aim failure is a local problem.

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:07:19 -0700

Sometime between 7:00 PM and 10:00 PM last night, I lost all network 
connectivity in the room (58xx).  I can obtain an IP address and ping 
the router, but no packets get anywhere else.

-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
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A sine curve goes off to infinity or at least the end of the blackboard.
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From: "Jihoon Lee" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:23:50 +0900

same here (room 31xx, golf hotel). But I was drunken last night, simply I
gave up. :-)

Ji Hoon

2008/7/30 Randall Gellens <[email-masked] <[email-masked]>>

> connectivity in the room (58xx).  I can obtain an IP address and ping the
> router, but no packets get anywhere else.
>
> --
> Randall Gellens

---

From: Janet P Gunn <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:31:33 -0400

According to the front desk last night (after I came out to the lobby 
since I was having the same problem in the room) they were having problems 
with the whole hotel network, and were working on it.

Janet

---

From: Marc Blanchet <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:46:39 +0100

every ietf, tuesday evening after social, too many geeks come back to  
their room at the same time and are heavily needing to be on-line  
since they have been offline for 3 hours... about everytime, it  
"crashes" the whole hotel room network...

Marc.

Le 08-07-30 à 09:31, Janet P Gunn a écrit :

>
>
> According to the front desk last night (after I came out to the  
> lobby since I was having the same problem in the room) they were  
> having problems with the whole hotel network, and were working on it.
>
> Janet
>
>

-----
IPv6 book: Migrating to IPv6, Wiley, http://www.ipv6book.ca

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:06:16 -0700

> having problems with the whole hotel network, and were working on 

This morning, the front desk had no idea about any network problems, 
and offered only to send a maintenance person to my room (to unclog 
the network with a toilet plunger, perhaps?)

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From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:19:19 -0400

My 25XX room network was fine, both after the social last night, and  
this morning.

Regards
Marshall

---

From: "Thomas Walsh" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:49:36 -0400

Janet,

Funny.  I talked to the same front desk person. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Randall Gellens
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 11:06 AM
To: Janet P Gunn
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [72attendees] In-room network