Subject: [89attendees] Oyster card balance

From: Jeff Haas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:03:29 +0000

Has anyone found a way to check the balance on an Oyster card?  The signup for the online service appears to require local information and it doesn’t seem to want to accept the Hilton’s phone number as a valid one. :-)

— Jeff

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From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 18:04:34 -0400

> Has anyone found a way to check the balance on an Oyster card?  The signup for the online service appears to require local information and it doesn’t seem to want to accept the Hilton’s phone numbe…

I used the phone number that came with my SIM card.

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From: Peter Yee <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:21:11 +0000

Present it to the reader on a ticket machine in a tube station and it will tell you the balance. The  gates also tell you but that might be too late for your purposes. 

                                -Peter

> On Mar 10, 2014, at 10:03 PM, Jeff Haas <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 89attendees mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/89attendees
>

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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 18:42:10 -0400

Jeff,

I assume you're attempting the online registration.

I got it to work by using a random UK phone number (I think a hotel
number). If one doesn't work, try another. :-) I also used a random
London postal code along with as much of my actual US address as I
could fit in the form. Once I got past the address and phone number
and put in the card number, it works great. I've got both my and my
wife's Oyster cards in the same account, you can have more than one.

Cheers,
Andy

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 6:03 PM, Jeff Haas <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Has anyone found a way to check the balance on an Oyster card?  The signup for the online service appears to require local information and it doesn't seem to want to accept the Hilton's phone number as a valid one. :-)
>
> -- Jeff
>
>

---

From: Mark Duckworth <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 18:58:58 -0400

I didn't bother with the online registration for my oyster card.  I just
bought one at the automated ticket machine, and it didn't ask for any
personal information.  When I was done with it, I went to the ticket
counter that had a real person behind it to ask for a refund.  I filled out
a simple form with my real name and address, presented US driver's license
for identification, and they gave me a refund for the unused balance plus
the 5 pound deposit.  It was fairly quick and painless.

Mark

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Andrew G. Malis <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > Has anyone found a way to check the balance on an Oyster card?  The
> signup for the online service appears to require local information and it
> doesn't seem to want to accept the Hilton's phone number as a valid one. :-)
> >
> > -- Jeff
> >
> >

---

From: "Andrew G. Malis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 19:02:41 -0400

Mark,

I'm in London enough that I just keep mine. The balance is supposed to
be good forever (and I've haven't seen any evidence to the contrary).

Cheers,
Andy

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 6:58 PM, Mark Duckworth <[email-masked]> wrote:
> personal information.  When I was done with it, I went to the ticket counter
> that had a real person behind it to ask for a refund.  I filled out a simple
> form with my real name and address, presented US driver's license for
> identification, and they gave me a refund for the unused balance plus the 5
> pound deposit.  It was fairly quick and painless.
>
> Mark
>
>

---

From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 16:27:53 -0700

Andy,

That was my experience too, I used a mix of my info and the hotels info to register the card.  I got a nice summary of my usage by email this morning.

I will be back in London in June.

Bob

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From: David Sinicrope <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 23:33:25 +0000

I did the same with the same result.
Dave

From: Mark Duckworth <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
Date: Monday, March 10, 2014 at 11:58 PM
To: Andrew Malis <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
Cc: Jeff Haas <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>, "[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
Subject: Re: [89attendees] Oyster card balance

I didn't bother with the online registration for my oyster card.  I just bought one at the automated ticket machine, and it didn't ask for any personal information.  When I was done with it, I went to the ticket counter that had a real person behind it to ask for a refund.  I filled out a simple form with my real name and address, presented US driver's license for identification, and they gave me a refund for the unused balance plus the 5 pound deposit.  It was fairly quick and painless.

Mark

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Andrew G. Malis <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
Jeff,

Cheers,
Andy

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 6:03 PM, Jeff Haas <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
> [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>

_______________________________________________
89attendees mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/89attendees

---

From: Eric Gray <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 00:08:19 +0000

So, in fact, since you had to fill out a form including personal information,
and present a US driver's license, it kind of sounds like neither of you were
actually able to avoid essentially the same process as Andy went though
with registration.

Or am I missing something?

From: 89attendees [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of David Sinicrope
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 7:33 PM
To: Mark Duckworth; Andrew G. Malis
Cc: Jeff Haas; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [89attendees] Oyster card balance

Mark

Cheers,
Andy

---

From: Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 18:19:56 -0700

My experience was even better. I forgot to turn in the card till I got to Heathrow. Went to the underground window with a real person. Did not have to show any id. Just asked for my credit card and the refund went back on the card.

Mahesh Jethanandani
[email-masked]

---

From: Bill Mills <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 18:24:05 -0700 (PDT)

I didn't think I had time for that, silly me...  Security was a breeze and got down to the gate 20 minutes before they'd let us in the lounge....

On Monday, March 10, 2014 6:20 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]> wrote:

Mahesh Jethanandani
[email-masked]

---

From: Stefan Winter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 08:31:58 +0100

Hi,

> Has anyone found a way to check the balance on an Oyster card?  The signup for the online service appears to require local information and it doesn’t seem to want to accept the Hilton’s phone numbe…

That number worked well for me. Probably the system only allows a phone
number *once* - and you were too late ;-)

Maybe adding your room number extension will make it unique and usable
again.

Stefan

-- 
Stefan WINTER
Ingenieur de Recherche
Fondation RESTENA - Réseau Téléinformatique de l'Education Nationale et
de la Recherche
6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi
L-1359 Luxembourg

Tel: +352 424409 1
Fax: +352 422473

PGP key updated to 4096 Bit RSA - I will encrypt all mails if the
recipient's key is known to me

http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xC0DE6A358A39DC66

---

From: Alexander Harrowell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 10:00:17 +0000

You don't need to provide any personal information whatsoever. Go to
anywhere with an Oyster terminal and touch in. If you're at a manned
station, they can also verify the transaction record (called
resolving) which is worth doing occasionally as you often get a
refund.

---

From: Stefan Winter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:06:59 +0100

Hi,

> anywhere with an Oyster terminal and touch in.

We were discussing enrolling to the online system. This should really
not involve a physical relocation ;-)

> If you're at a manned

Yes, that's one of the more funny parts. Once you are enrolled online,
you can top up your card online with a credit card - and then need to
travel to one of those "resolving" stations to actually update your card
balance.

It escapes my why an online top-up can't stand on its own? It is after
all an UDPATE in some DB of the accounting system. Unless the balance is
actually kept on the card, not in a central DB. If it is on the card, I
wonder if messing with the card is a worthwhile hacker's target for, uh,
"self-service" top-up.

Greetings,

Stefan Winter

Tel: +352 424409 1
Fax: +352 422473

---

From: Derek Atkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 04:48:36 -0700

> wonder if messing with the card is a worthwhile hacker's target for, uh,

I don't know specifically about Oyster, but the Boston MBTA Charlie Card
which appears to use similar technologies definitely has the balance
stored on the card itself.  Although it is *possible* that it uses a
database for reconciliation to detect fraud/tampering.  I'm pretty sure
the SF-Bay-Area Clipper Card works similarly, too, and indeed I recall
hearing about a ring of counterfitters that were generating fake cards
with balances.

Before the MBTA moved to the contact card they used mag swipe cards, and
those were very easy to rewrite/hack with a card-reader-writer machine.

-derek

---

From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 09:17:29 -0400

The Oyster card system knows what transactions have occurred on the oyster card, and can tell you the balance without the card being present.   So I think the balance is stored in the database, not the card, although it may be that the card is used as a backup in case of network partition.   I suspect tampering would be quickly detected (it's certainly easy to detect in principle the way the system is set up) and hence not advisable for those of us who wish to be able to continue attending IETF in person.

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From: Alexander Harrowell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:41:53 +0000

The answer is both; it's like a banking system, doing
increments/decrements, with an overdraft buffer and a resolution
mechanism.

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From: Stefan Winter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 07:46:40 +0100

Hi,

> increments/decrements, with an overdraft buffer and a resolution

Well except that your bank always has an authoritative view on your
balance; if the Oysters don't phone home every time there is no such
central view.

I understand the card is offline until "synchronised" at a resolution
tube station?

So one could tamper with the balance arbitrarily so long as one avoids
travelling through those stations?

Stefan

Tel: +352 424409 1
Fax: +352 422473

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 08:14:51 +0100 (CET)

> balance; if the Oysters don't phone home every time there is no such 

Well, actually they don't. Terminals can do offline transactions with 
credit cards, which is then bulk uploaded once connectivity is available. 
Also remember the stencil paper machines of old? Definitely offline, 
delayed days until paperwork has come to the bank.

>From what I've heard it's possible to tamper with the amount of money 
available on these kinds of cards, but after a while the system detects 
the desync between the system and the card, and blacklists the card.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: [email-masked]