Subject: [89attendees] This hotel needs to rated on TripAdvisor

From: "Jethanandani, Mahesh" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 01:53:25 -0800

Stewart Bryant asked the question in the elevator - who is having to 
take showers with cold water. At least half if not more said they were. 
That is after I have had problems with the room being very hot, with 
sink getting clogged and the room not getting cleaned till late in the 
evening.

I am not even discussing breakfast.

I want to start a petition to post your experience of this hotel on 
TripAdvisor.

-- 
Mahesh Jethanandani
[email-masked]

---

From: Peter Yee <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 02:03:54 -0800

Perhaps this is an issue of which wing you are staying in?  I¹m in the
West Wing
and my water is more than hot when needed (albeit not very highly
pressurized),
my room was made up before 8:45 this morning (and most every morning), and
pretty
much everything works.  I¹ve stayed in the West Wing before to good
effect, but
have no experience with the Tower or East Wing.

Certainly, you should be posting your experience to TripAdvisor, but I
don¹t
know if that factors into the decision on which hotel to use for future
meetings.

		-Peter

On 3/5/14, 1:53 AM, "Jethanandani, Mahesh" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>_______________________________________________
>89attendees mailing list
>[email-masked]
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/89attendees
>

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 05:06:44 -0500

--On Wednesday, 05 March, 2014 01:53 -0800 "Jethanandani,
Mahesh" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Stewart Bryant asked the question in the elevator - who is
> having to take showers with cold water. At least half if not
> more said they were.

The difficulty is that such surveys are most often answered by
those who are disgruntled and who have the time to read the long
threads of complaining on this (and every other) meeting list.  

It seems that room issues differ among the three towers/wings
and maybe by floor or finer granularity within them.  I've got
hot water, working and readily accessible wired Ethernet.  I
don't have as much water pressures as I'd like and prefer real
thermostats to a knob that effectively says "more" and "less",
but have no serious complaints.  Those of you who are, by the
luck of the draw, having serious problems have my sympathy, but
I don't think a conclusion that all of us, or even a majority of
us, are unhappy is justified.

   john

---

From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:09:19 +0000

I was first in a room in the tower. Now I was able to get a room in the West wing.

The difference between the two rooms is like day and night.

Cheers,
Mehmet
(Sent from my iPad)

> Am 05.03.2014 um 10:04 schrieb "ext Peter Yee" <[email-masked]>:
>

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 02:09:36 -0800

At 1:53 AM -0800 3/5/14, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote:

>  Stewart Bryant asked the question in the elevator - who is having 
> to take showers with cold water. At least half if not more said 
> they were.

Lack of hot water is a serious issue and should be immediately 
reported to the hotel.  If it has been reported, were they able to 
correct it?

>   That is after I have had problems with the room being very hot, 
> with sink getting clogged and the room not getting cleaned till 
> late in the evening.

Depending on the type of AC control, you may need to call and have 
engineering alter the set point.

Personally, I've been happy to leave the Do Not Disturb sign on every 
day to keep my room from being cleaned.  I can keep it clean and 
straighten my bed just fine.

>  I want to start a petition to post your experience of this hotel on 

Why a petition?  Why not just go ahead and post your experiences?

-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
[A]fter all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy
and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it
is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a parliament or a communist
dictatorship.... That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
    -- Hermann Goering, from Nuremberg Diary by G. M. Gilbert.

---

From: Robert Moskowitz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 10:11:42 +0000

On 03/05/2014 09:53 AM, Jethanandani, Mahesh wrote:
> take showers with cold water. At least half if not more said they 
> were. That is after I have had problems with the room being very hot, 
> with sink getting clogged and the room not getting cleaned till late 
> in the evening.
>

I suspect our experiences are all over the map.

My showers are too hot, and I LIKE hot showers.

I have encountered sinks like this in Sweden and Finland and have 
figured out how to keep them open to drain properly.

I have a cold and had to turn my room temp up and thanks to earlier 
comments here, i got it figured out quickly.

I was in my room late morning and had to put out the 'do not disturb' 
sign so that the cleaning people left me alone.  They came around 
sometime between 1 - 2.

So perhaps it is which tower (I am in west) and such as to how you would 
rate this hotel.

Oh, and I have EU, UK, and US power outlets all working.  Two ethernet, 
of which one works.  WiFi signal is weak.

I am happy here.

---

From: Palanivelan Appanasamy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 15:50:28 +0530

Would have diff. exp depending on which tower u r in and few other
variables. Fair to expect a consistently Good exp. Lets post both sides of
it and push for improvements.

Mine is pretty good so far. Thx.
 On Mar 5, 2014 10:12 AM, "Robert Moskowitz" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

>> Stewart Bryant asked the question in the elevator - who is having to take
>> showers with cold water. At least half if not more said they were. That is
>> after I have had problems with the room being very hot, with sink getting
>> clogged and the room not getting cleaned till late in the evening.
>>
> I have encountered sinks like this in Sweden and Finland and have figured
> out how to keep them open to drain properly.
>
> I was in my room late morning and had to put out the 'do not disturb' sign
> so that the cleaning people left me alone.  They came around sometime
> between 1 - 2.
>
> Oh, and I have EU, UK, and US power outlets all working.  Two ethernet, of
> which one works.  WiFi signal is weak.
>
> I am happy here.
>

---

From: Tim Bray <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 02:22:02 -0800

Interesting... people who do reviews should probably note that your
experience seems to depend heavily on where you are. I have to say the West
Wing rooms are above average by London-hotel standards, which means well
below the world average, but still, not terrible.

---

From: "Surendra Kumar (smkumar)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:26:46 +0000

I'm in west wing and it seems fine, although not the best.

Surendra.

---

From: Adam Roach <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 10:27:59 +0000

> reported to the hotel.  If it has been reported, were they able to 

Not that I've reported it, but with a data point of my room on the 20th 
floor, and corroborated by asking a few other people in the tower, it 
seems that you can generally draw hot water in the afternoon and evening 
without a problem, while the best you can get is in the range of "cold 
to tepid" in the mornings. This tells me that the problem is systemic, 
and not something in my room. I suspect that the synchronicity of 
several hundred people trying to get to meetings that all start at 
exactly the same time is more than the system has been dimensioned for.

Which is to say: I suspect the problem can't be fixed without a complete 
overhaul of the water heating system in the tower; and I surmise that 
this won't be done in the few days before I leave. My experience at 
hotels is that asking them to fix something that can't quickly be solved 
by one person with a wrench generally results in a punitive visit from 
maintenance staff who then fiddle with something until it breaks.

/a

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 11:28:18 +0100

Hi,

I think the rooms are one thing. But if you have a problem with a room and contact the hotel my expectation is that they will take care on the issue. But simply ignoring it does not help much and from my point of view this gives an insight how they handle problems in general (my personal experience is, that this hotel has an extremely poor performance and does not care much).

  Regards

    Nic

Von: 89attendees [mailto:[email-masked]] Im Auftrag von Tim Bray
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. März 2014 11:22
An: Robert Moskowitz
Cc: Jethanandani, Mahesh; [email-masked]
Betreff: Re: [89attendees] This hotel needs to rated on TripAdvisor

Interesting... people who do reviews should probably note that your experience seems to depend heavily on where you are. I have to say the West Wing rooms are above average by London-hotel standards, which means well below the world average, but still, not terrible.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 2:11 AM, Robert Moskowitz <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:

On 03/05/2014 09:53 AM, Jethanandani, Mahesh wrote:
Stewart Bryant asked the question in the elevator - who is having to take showers with cold water. At least half if not more said they were. That is after I have had problems with the room being very hot, with sink getting clogged and the room not getting cleaned till late in the evening.

I am not even discussing breakfast.
I want to start a petition to post your experience of this hotel on TripAdvisor.

I have encountered sinks like this in Sweden and Finland and have figured out how to keep them open to drain properly.

I have a cold and had to turn my room temp up and thanks to earlier comments here, i got it figured out quickly.

I was in my room late morning and had to put out the 'do not disturb' sign so that the cleaning people left me alone.  They came around sometime between 1 - 2.

So perhaps it is which tower (I am in west) and such as to how you would rate this hotel.

Oh, and I have EU, UK, and US power outlets all working.  Two ethernet, of which one works.  WiFi signal is weak.

I am happy here.

_______________________________________________
89attendees mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/89attendees

---

From: Ben Campbell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:34:20 +0000

On Mar 5, 2014, at 10:27 AM, Adam Roach <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Which is to say: I suspect the problem can't be fixed without a complete overhaul of the water heating system in the tower; and I surmise that this won't be done in the few days before I leave. My experience at hotels is that asking them to fix something that can't quickly be solved by one person with a wrench generally results in a punitive visit from maintenance staff who then fiddle with something until it breaks.

(Caveat: My room is mostly okay (east wing.) and is consistent with John's previous comments )

But things like hot water are basic assumptions for a hotel room. It would be reasonable to ask for a room change, or compensation if the room change is not available. Perhaps if that happened often enough, they would prioritize said overhaul.

OTOH, maybe I can sell hot water from my overheated tap ;-)

---

From: Thomas Herbst <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:37:11 +0000

+1

Attempting to avoid piling on, but on the hot water issue it clearly is
that the system is over subscribed when synchronized with our meeting
schedule.  A request to the hotel is unlikely to yield anything useful but
an acceptable work around is to get up early and use the the available hot
water before the rest of you get to it.

As a resident of the 9th floor of the tower, the biggest disappointment
has been the lack of a functional network.  Perhaps the heroic efforts in
Paris set an unreasonable expectation, but there is no wired network in my
room (I've moved every bit of furniture and examined every wall plate) and
the WIFI no longer even supports receiving or sending email, much less
voip.  This has resulted in the need to find other quiet places in the
hotel to do US timezone meetings late into the night.  For the benefit of
the community, I've resisted doing these meetings in my pajamas.

tom

---

From: "Rosen, Brian" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:37:38 +0000

>exactly the same time is more than the system has been dimensioned for.
Huh.  That¹s my experience on the 11th floor of the Tower.

If indeed it¹s systemic problem, and it¹s not going to be fixed, then some
form of compensation is in order.  I asked them to fix this for me this
morning by going to the front desk.  I discovered that the ³magic button²
on the phone in the room doesn¹t work.

I am pretty disappointed in this hotel.  The staff, for me, has been nice,
but the facilities are subpar, pretty much all around.  About the only
positive thing I can say for facilities is that the chairs in the meeting
rooms are comfortable.

---

From: Andrew Sullivan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 05:49:09 -0500

> positive thing I can say for facilities is that the chairs in the meeting

This appears to illustrate how much one's experience varies.  I find
these chairs among the least comfortable things I've ever tried to sit
upon.

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
[email-masked]

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 02:56:45 -0800

At 10:37 AM +0000 3/5/14, Thomas Herbst wrote:

>  For the benefit of

You forget this is the IETF.  No one cares.  I think the dress code 
is ("pants of some sort requested in most public areas")

Now, if these are video conference meetings, I can't speak for your 
coworkers at seeing you in PJs or shirtless.  Maybe "Poor fellow, 
he's up at all hours sacrificing his sleep to get our goals 
accomplished" or "miserable slob -- if I have to wear a shirt so does 
he"

-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the
stupidity of your action.

---

From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:56:35 +0000

For what its worth, I’m in the east wing, and my room has been great.
Water is hot, AC works, room is quiet, and cleaning staff has always come
in timely fashion. I have found all hotel staff in reception and
restaurants to be very pleasant and helpful.
Oh, and elevators work exceptionally well :)

Cheers,
Charles

---

From: Jared Mauch <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:57:58 +0000

I am having an excellent experience here. The outlets in my room work. The water is the right temp. My couch is comfy and I have redundant beds. The water even works and can be adjusted. 

I was even able to check in early. The wifi seems to be impacted at peak time, but as a semi-pro traveller I have backup options (tethering via phone or iPad). 

I've paid more for far worse hotel experiences. 

Sent from my iThing

> On Mar 5, 2014, at 9:53 AM, "Jethanandani, Mahesh" <[email-masked]> wrote:
>

---

From: "Suhas Nandakumar (snandaku)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:59:16 +0000

Just echoing Charles point. I am here since Thursday afternoon .. No complaints till now .. It's been a great experience 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 5, 2014, at 10:57 AM, "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <[email-masked]> wrote:
>

---

From: "Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 11:02:14 +0000

Over in the East wing I have all the hot water I want, working electrical outlets, working wired network, passable (but not great) WiFi... but the room has clearly not been renovated in decades and the shower occupies significantly less than one square meter, so I've definitely seen more comfortable accommodations... especially at the price I'm paying. Even in London.

Matthew Kaufman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 89attendees [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
> Jared Mauch
> Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 10:58 AM
> To: Jethanandani, Mahesh
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [89attendees] This hotel needs to rated on TripAdvisor
> 
> I am having an excellent experience here. The outlets in my room work. The
> water is the right temp. My couch is comfy and I have redundant beds. The
> water even works and can be adjusted.
> 
> I was even able to check in early. The wifi seems to be impacted at peak
> time, but as a semi-pro traveller I have backup options (tethering via phone
> or iPad).
>

---

From: Olafur Gudmundsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 11:04:49 +0000

> these chairs among the least comfortable things I've ever tried to sit

I agree the chairs are real bad, my back is hurting after few minutes sitting in them 
Hotel is just as bad as it was last time and I'm glad I'm not staying here. 

	Olafur

---

From: "John G. Scudder" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 11:07:04 +0000

Y'know, this whole conversation (and several others) could probably be compressed into (online poll of your choice).

I feel I've expended my quota of ranting already (I get a smaller quota than some of you do I think) so I'll just summarize with a letter grade for the hotel: C.

--John

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 12:08:07 +0100 (CET)

> Oh, and elevators work exceptionally well :)

Me too, I am on 5th floor at east wing. Water temp+pressure fine, room 
faces inwards overviewing the pool so noise level is good, I haven't felt 
the need to change the temperature at all, wired Internet works great (I 
have my own wifi AP/NAT box I bring so wifi in the room works great).

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: [email-masked]

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 03:01:57 -0800

At 5:06 AM -0500 3/5/14, John C Klensin wrote:

>  and prefer real
>  thermostats to a knob that effectively says "more" and "less"

Those really do drive me crazy.  Of course I want to know "more or 
less than what?"  Turns out there is a per-room set-point that is 
only visible to and accessible to hotel maintenance.  They can change 
it (when I checked in mine was set to "broast" but they adjusted it 
to "arctic" which is fine since I can turn it off).

-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well.
    --Joe Ancis

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 03:07:10 -0800

At 2:22 AM -0800 3/5/14, Tim Bray wrote:

>  people who do reviews should probably note that your experience 
> seems to depend heavily on where you are.

This is very often the case, yet almost never properly informed in 
TripAdvisor et al reviews.  Almost any hotel will have a range of 
reviews, from "Worst dump I ever stayed at!" to "Most luxurious place 
in the world."  Without knowing both the type of room (normal, 
deluxe, jr. suite, full suite, presidential suite) placement within 
hotel, and expectations/experience of reviewer (first tine stayed 
anywhere other than Motel 6 in Arkansas vs normally stay at Ritz 
Carlton) it's impossible to put a review into context.

-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
Not far from here, by a white sun, behind a green star, lived the
Steelypips, illustrious, industrious, and they hadn't a care: no
spats in their vats, no rules, no schools, no gloom, no evil
influence of the moon, no trouble from matter or antimatter -- for
they had a machine, a dream of a machine, with springs and gears and
perfect in every respect. And they lived with it, and on it, and
under it, and inside it, for it was all they had -- first they saved
up all their atoms, then they  put them all together, and if one
didn't fit, why they chipped at it a bit, and everything was just
fine....                                            --Stanislaw Lem