Subject: [95attendees] Reciprocity Fee not required from US passport holders, March 24, 2016

From: Dave Plonka <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:15:59 -0400

Hi folks,

Hmm, it looks like Obama's visit with Macri had some results,
at least for those of us procrastinators that haven't paid this yet:

   Reciprocity fee for US citizens

   As from March 24, 2016, and until further notice, payment of
   the Reciprocity Fee will not be required from US passport holders.

   http://www.embassyofargentina.us/en/consular-section/reciprocity-fee-for-us-citizens.html

Dave

-- 
[email-masked]  http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~plonka/  Cambridge, MA

---

From: Robert Moskowitz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:22:52 -0400

>     http://www.embassyofargentina.us/en/consular-section/reciprocity-fee-for-us-citizens.html

Um,

The 24th is the holiday of Purim.  Where little is as it seems.

I am leary.

Just check again next week.

Or it can be the aspect of Purim where the order is turned on its head.

....

---

From: "STARK, BARBARA H" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 13:01:31 +0000

> Or it can be the aspect of Purim where the order is turned on its head.

I suspect the fact that March 24 is the 40th anniversary of the 1976 military coup that the U.S. initially supported may be more relevant. The US government has said it is declassifying documents that show the US role in the coup (apparently in an attempt to start to come clean). It appears that US involvement in this "dirty war" is still the cause of considerable resentment in Argentina, and there are supposed to be big demonstrations today on the Plaza de Mayo protesting against this US involvement and against Obama, corporations, and the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact. 
Barbara

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From: Daniel Harkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 15:35:13 +0000

On 3/24/16, 6:01 AM, "95attendees on behalf of STARK, BARBARA H" <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]> on behalf of [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:

Um,

  Argentina isn’t even in the TPP!

  Dan.

Barbara

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---

From: Dave Plonka <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 12:23:11 -0400

> Or it can be the aspect of Purim where the order is turned on its head.

Perhaps in the spirit of Purim, I hope to spend my reciprocity fee
on some fesitve drinking in BA. :)

   "Argentina Suspends Reciprocity Fee for US Tourists" (24 Mar 2016)
   http://www.argentinaindependent.com/currentaffairs/newsfromargentina/argentina-suspends-reciprocity-fee-for-us-tourists/

   According to the Argentine embassy in the US, as from March 24,
   2016, and until further notice, payment of the Reciprocity Fee
   will not be required from US passport holders.

   A message on the Argentine immigration office website adds more
   details: The reciprocity fee created by Presidential Decree
   1654/2008 and regulated by the Disposition DNM 2761/2009, will
   be suspended for a 90-day period, or until an Executive Order
   be issued (as promoted by this National Directorate), for the
   derogation of this fee, as regards the US citizens entering
   Argentine territory.

---

From: Fernando Gont <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 17:37:07 +0100

Barbara,

On 03/24/2016 02:01 PM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote:
>> Um, The 24th is the holiday of Purim.  Where little is as it
>> seems. I am leary. Just check again next week. Or it can be the
>> aspect of Purim where the order is turned on its head.
> 
> I suspect the fact that March 24 is the 40th anniversary of the 1976
> military coup that the U.S. initially supported may be more relevant.
> The US government has said it is declassifying documents that show
> the US role in the coup (apparently in an attempt to start to come
> clean). It appears that US involvement in this "dirty war" is still
> the cause of considerable resentment in Argentina, and there are
> supposed to be big demonstrations today on the Plaza de Mayo
> protesting against this US involvement and against Obama,
> corporations, and the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact.

The US involvement in the Argentina's military coup (which killed over
30000 people) is generally known. Generally speaking, and for probably
obvious reasons, people tend to dislike when one country minds into
another country's internal business (this applies not only to the coup
in Argentina, but essentially to every dictatorship that was backed in
latin america at the same timeframe).

However, the above doesn't imply hate. Nor does it imply people blaming
US citizens for what they government did, or blaming a government for
what past president did (even if that represented the sentiment of the
majority at the time, or even the majority of people nowadays). As a
datapoint, I've talked about "foreign policy" with a  number of folks
from the US during IETF meetings, who are not supportive of the
aforementioned policy. The world is pretty much like that. And even if
someone was supportive of such policies, I'm of the idea that, if
anything, the way to go is to provide an alternative perspective 8and in
the worst case scenario, just agree to disagree).

Yes, you'd probably not be welcome by the crowds if you raised a US flag
in the middle of a remembrance act of March 24th -- but I guess that's
something that, based on common sense, you wouldn't do.

Relax. No need to worry. And enjoy Buenos Aires!

-- 
Fernando Gont
e-mail: [email-masked] || [email-masked]
PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1

---

From: Fernando Gont <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 19:17:41 +0100

On 03/24/2016 06:15 PM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote:
> My email wasn't intended to suggest I was concerned. I was just
> trying to provide a little information as to why March 24 is
> considered an important date in Argentina. I like to know about both
> history and current events in places where I travel, because that
> gives insight into what I see around me. I don't just want to see the
> external façade of Buenos Aires -- I want to see the people and
> understand who they are and how they see themselves, the world, and
> their place in the world. I assure you, I have every intention of
> enjoying Buenos Aires.

Ok, that's awesome. I just thought you were concerned. -- I'll be
putting up something along these lines. -- more later.

> [I also appreciated the info Alexis gave about reasons for the
> education workers strike. It provided a perspective that while us
> foreigners are rejoicing that we can now get pesos from ATMs, the
> economic reforms that made that happen are causing some people
> pain.] 

*Exactly*. During the last ten years,the government did quite a few
things that I personally share from an idealogical point of view:. eg.,

* They brought back scientists that had essentially been expelled from
  the country in the '90s (during the then neoliberal government).

* The government invested *a lot* on education.

* Science and technological developments where sponsored (see e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARSAT-1)

* And there were lots of advances in social and human rights aspects
(gay marriage, assisted fertilization law, and others)

* Lots of small and medium companies flourished (many of which had shut
down operations during the 90s)

* The government regained control of a number of companies that had been
sold during the nineties (and that had essentially been sacked).

The government also broke relationships with the media monopolies (just
not to say "mafia"), and obviously you'd get what you'd expect in terms
of media (and not unusually foreign media, that happen to pick up the
stuff that these folks write here). And it hasn't been unusual for me to
meet people around the world that apparently base their opinions on such
media.

Yes, not everything was good, there are things I don't agree with, etc.,
etc., but there was certainly a much needed change in direction. And I
can tell you first hand that the life of many changed for good (by no
means am I meaning that the life of everyone changed, nor that the life
of everyone changed as much as needed). Last December the government
changed to a center-right wing one, with some policies similar to those
that we already experienced in the '90s. -- a large number of votes went
there in the name of change (no matter what "change" implied)... but I
hear some of that is happening in the north, too... so I guess not much
need to explain.

Ah... obviously, you need to read about this guy:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona>  :-)

FWIW, I live in Buenos Aires.

Cheers,

---

From: "STARK, BARBARA H" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 17:15:36 +0000

> Relax. No need to worry. And enjoy Buenos Aires!

My email wasn't intended to suggest I was concerned. I was just trying to provide a little information as to why March 24 is considered an important date in Argentina. I like to know about both history and current events in places where I travel, because that gives insight into what I see around me. I don't just want to see the external façade of Buenos Aires -- I want to see the people and understand who they are and how they see themselves, the world, and their place in the world. I assure you, I have every intention of enjoying Buenos Aires. 

[I also appreciated the info Alexis gave about reasons for the education workers strike. It provided a perspective that while us foreigners are rejoicing that we can now get pesos from ATMs, the economic reforms that made that happen are causing some people pain.]
Barbara

---

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:48:09 -0500

So, just as a datapoint ...

> http://www.embassyofargentina.us/en/consular-section/reciprocity-fee-for-us-citizens.html

Greetings from DFW.

I happened to have a reciprocity fee receipt (because I paid it 20 minutes
before Obama landed in Argentina, apparently), but after I showed it to the
nice lady at AA check-in, I asked, and she had no idea that this is no
longer required (the AA check-in screen asks them to verify that you have
one).

So, I'm sure your mileage may vary, but if you don't have a reciprocity fee
receipt already and weren't planning to get one, there are likely helpful
actions you could take. Perhaps printing off the page above? Or at least
showing up at the airport early enough that you can run to a business
center if the carrier won't let you on a plane without paying the fee? Or
just showing up early enough to allow time for an extended conversation?

But do the right thing, whatever that is ...

Spencer

---

From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:00:49 -0500

At the United gate in Dallas they announced the Reciprocity form was only required for people traveling with AU and NZ passports.  

Bob

> On Mar 31, 2016, at 20:48, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> I happened to have a reciprocity fee receipt (because I paid it 20 minutes before Obama landed in Argentina, apparently), but after I showed it to the nice lady at AA check-in, I asked, and she had no idea that this is no longer required (the AA check-in screen asks them to verify that you have one).
> 
> So, I'm sure your mileage may vary, but if you don't have a reciprocity fee receipt already and weren't planning to get one, there are likely helpful actions you could take. Perhaps printing off the page above? Or at least showing up at the airport early enough that you can run to a business center if the carrier won't let you on a plane without paying the fee? Or just showing up early enough to allow time for an extended conversation?
> 
> [email-masked]

---

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:09:15 -0500

Hi, Bob,

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 9:00 PM, Bob Hinden <[email-masked]> wrote:

> At the United gate in Dallas they announced the Reciprocity form was only
> required for people traveling with AU and NZ passports.
>

Right. I was at AA, and when the check-in attendant asked for the receipt,
I handed her one, and she clicked the "verified" box, before I asked her if
they had heard we don't need it any more. She had not, but since I had one,
I don't know what would have happened next if I hadn't had one.

My flight was delayed an hour anyway, so maybe I would have just burned
that hour reasoning with them? :D

For extra credit - almost all international AA flights are out of Terminal
D now, but I noticed a few trips back that if I check in at Terminal A next
to the DART Train station, I can clear security and use Skylink inside
security to go to any other terminal at the airport quickly, instead of
standing outside the terminal waiting for the crowded and infrequent buses
between terminals. So I was checking in at a terminal that may not see
anyone else checking in for Argentina this week ... and maybe everyone at
Terminal D does know.

Spencer

> So, I'm sure your mileage may vary, but if you don't have a reciprocity
> fee receipt already and weren't planning to get one, there are likely
> helpful actions you could take. Perhaps printing off the page above? Or at
> least showing up at the airport early enough that you can run to a business

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 1 Apr 2016 02:31:00 -0000

>At the United gate in Dallas they announced the Reciprocity form was only required for people traveling with AU and NZ passports.  

NZ?  Well, one out of two isn't bad for United.

R's,
John

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:36:37 -0700

At 8:48 PM -0500 3/31/16, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:

>
>  Greetings from DFW.
>
>  I happened to have a reciprocity fee receipt (because I paid it 20 
> minutes before Obama landed in Argentina, apparently), but after I 
> showed it to the nice lady at AA check-in, I asked, and she had no 
> idea that this is no longer required (the AA check-in screen asks 
> them to verify that you have one).
>
>  So, I'm sure your mileage may vary, but if you don't have a 
> reciprocity fee receipt already and weren't planning to get one, 
> there are likely helpful actions you could take. Perhaps printing 
> off the page above? Or at least showing up at the airport early 
> enough that you can run to a business center if the carrier won't 
> let you on a plane without paying the fee? Or just showing up early 
> enough to allow time for an extended conversation?
>

If an airline agent asks for a receipt, tell them it isn't required 
and suggest they check TIMATIC, which removed the requirement last 
week.

-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
. . . It wasn't until the jet engine came into being and that
engine was coupled with special airplane designs - such as the
swept wing - that airplanes finally achieved a high enough work
capability, efficiency and comfort level to allow air
transportation to really take off.
        --Joseph F. Sutter, Boeing Commercial Airplanes

---

From: Ben Campbell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 23:01:57 -0500

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 31, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Greetings from DFW.
> 

I gather the AA agents at the counter in DFW terminal D knew about the change, but the roving agents at the kiosks were inconsistent. Possibly because the kiosk agent UI didn't offer a "does not apply" option.

Ben.