Subject: [95attendees] Walking around Buenos Aires

From: Vinayak Hegde <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 01:15:28 +0530

Hi,

I plan to spend sometime walking around some areas of the city. (San
Telmo, La Boca, Palermo, Puerto Madero, Recoleta) in free time between
WGs. Sometimes it is likely that I will have a camera alongwith me (an
old 8-year DSLR and couple of lenses) and definitely phones for
directions (Google Maps).

I found that Buenos Aires is known for it's graffiti / Street art and
also want to take pictures of those. How safe is it to walk around
these areas (mentioned above and other areas) ? What times of the
day/night should we avoid those ? Do people mind their pictures being
taken ? In some countries people smile, others they look away, some
others they turn aggressive.

I will take the general precautions. Not walk around with bling and
avoid unsafe looking areas but some general guidance from the locals
will be useful.

Thanks
Vinayak

PS: Keeping fingers crossed and hoping that this doesn't turn into
"Prague is full of pickpocketers" thread. :)

---

From: "Ivancic, William D. (GRC-LCA0)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 20:44:27 +0000

I  was in Buenos Aries and stayed in San Telmo area and walked all around.
 I felt very safe - particularly in the day.

Like all big cities, avoid crimes of opportunity.  Other than that, enjoy.

Will

On 3/29/16, 3:45 PM, "95attendees on behalf of Vinayak Hegde"
<[email-masked] on behalf of [email-masked]> wrote:

>_______________________________________________
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---

From: Fernando Gont <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 23:23:27 +0200

On 03/29/2016 09:45 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote:
> WGs. 

You don't walk around La Boca with a photo camera. And if you visit
Caminito, you stick to the few-blocks touristic spots., and head back no
later than, say 6PM.

> Sometimes it is likely that I will have a camera alongwith me (an

If you walk around using a phone as a GPS, it's not unlikely that somene
will grab your phone and run away.

> these areas (mentioned above and other areas) ?

If there's  people around, Palermo and Recoleta are generally fine. Same
applies to touristic spots in San Telmo. You don't visit La Boca at
night... and, generally speaking, is not an area where I'd be showing my
goodies around.

> What times of the
> day/night should we avoid those ?

La Boca/Caminito: shouldn't be there past, say, 7PM.

The other areas (assuming you're not in a dark corner) are generally fine.

"Generally fine" = risk of getting hurt is pretty low. (Pick pocketing
and that kind of stuff is bellow the threshold to make it to the
"security considerations).

> Do people mind their pictures being 

I guess tht depends on how "invasive" your pictures are... but in any
case, it's hard to provide a general answer to this question.

> avoid unsafe looking areas but some general guidance from the locals

I'm on a bus. Will post my guide in the next few ours -- keep an eye on
the mailing-ist for my announcement.

> "Prague is full of pickpocketers" thread. :)

If people complain aout pickpockets in Prague r Paris, I'll probably
unsubscribe from this list before Saturday. :-)

(More about this in the pipeline...)

-- 
Fernando Gont
e-mail: [email-masked] || [email-masked]
PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1

---

From: Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 23:50:44 +0200

> will grab your phone and run away.

Well, using a device with a map is something that is a reasonable thing
to do when visiting a foreign city.  Are you saying we need to revert to
paper maps for Buenos Aires?

(And while I have your attention: How would you characterize the area
between the subway station Leandro N. Alem and the Hilton?  It is
advisable to walk this stretch in the evening?  What is the preferred
way to use transit from the Hilton, anyway?)

Grüße, Carsten

---

From: Fernando Gont <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 00:26:16 +0200

> paper maps for Buenos Aires?

I'm saying that I wouldn't be surprised if someone grabs your phone and
runs away.

In the Hilton area (Puerto Madero) you will be fine. But e.g. if you go
around any crowded area while playing with your phone, it's likely that
you'll get busted. -- you just don't do it. -- and this applies no
matter what seurity measures you *think* you're taking -- folks that do
that are goodat what they do.

> between the subway station Leandro N. Alem and the Hilton? 

Disneyland. :-)

>  It is  advisable to walk this stretch in the evening?

Yes. FWIW, for ages it has been my preferred choice if I want to have a
walk at night and not have to worry about security.

> What is the preferred

In Buenos Aires, I'd say that, to the extent that is possible, take the
metro (Line B's Alem station or Line A's Plaza de Mayo are probably the
closest stations). Particularly at rush hour, bus or taxi are likely to
participate in traffic jams.

---

From: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 22:44:35 +0000

I tend to be careful taking my phone out while walking around in Raleigh downtown ( NC, USA), let alone any foreign city.

One of my friends got his smartphones snatched from his hands in NYC while walking around.

Cheers,
Rajiv

On Mar 29, 2016, at 5:51 PM, Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:

Fernando Gont wrote:

Gr??e, Carsten

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---

From: Fernando Gont <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 00:46:43 +0200

On 03/30/2016 12:44 AM, Rajiv Asati (rajiva) wrote:
> I tend to be careful taking my phone out while walking around in Raleigh
> downtown ( NC, USA), let alone any foreign city.  

Exactly, that's the point: secure by default  ;-)

Cheers,

---

From: "Somers-Harris, David | David | OPS" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 00:09:36 +0000

I’m going to be so mind blown, having grown up in Tokyo where we leave our iPhones on a seat to reserve it seats while we order at Starbucks...

---

From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 21:15:55 -0400

So the upshot of this seems to be that if I want an excuse to get a new
phone, I should use my existing phone for finding my way around Buenos
Aires?​

---

From: Fernando Gont <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 03:10:41 +0200

> I’m going to be so mind blown, having grown up in Tokyo where we leave our iPhones on a seat to reserve it seats while we order at Starbucks...

Chances are that, if you try that in Buenos Aires, the first thing to be
blown could be your phone rather than your mind. :-))

Seriously... the world is a large place. If you travel thousands of
kilometers, don't expect to do things in exactly the same way you do
them at home. (I'm amazed by e.g. folks getting an overpriced starbucks
coffee over a proper espresso).

Thanks,

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 03:19:36 -0300

> I’m going to be so mind blown, having grown up in Tokyo where we leave
> our iPhones on a seat to reserve it seats while we order at
> Starbucks...

in this, and other aspects, japan is not on the same planet.  in BA,
like many large european cities, it'll be snatch and run.  in some US
cities, it's simpler, they just kill you.

randy

---

From: Долматов Василий Вадимович <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 06:34:53 +0000

> 30 марта 2016 г., в 9:19, Randy Bush <[email-masked]> написал(а):
> 
…and get both the phone and the seat ;)

dol@

---

From: Sudhin Jacob <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 06:39:48 +0000

Japan is awesome place. You can have sound sleep at night with door and windows of your apartments open. No shooting or theft. I really love those people and the
Country. I could able to walk at the streets of Yokohama without fear. 

Regards,
Sudhin

-----Original Message-----
From: 95attendees [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Randy Bush
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 11:50 AM
To: David Somers-Harris <[email-masked]>
Cc: 95 Attendees <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [95attendees] Walking around Buenos Aires

> our iPhones on a seat to reserve it seats while we order at 

in this, and other aspects, japan is not on the same planet.  in BA, like many large european cities, it'll be snatch and run.  in some US cities, it's simpler, they just kill you.

randy

---

From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:11:45 -0400

Can any of the Argentinians on the list who follow the news comment on how
common kidnappings and "virtual kidnappings" are now?   The virtual
kidnapping phenomenon was pretty visible in the news last April, but I'm
not seeing anything more recent about it, and of course there's minimal
local context, like for example _where_ they were happening in Argentina.

(For those who haven't read about this, the main thing seems to have been
that criminals were posing as kidnappers and convincing people to send
relatively small ransoms to free their supposedly kidnapped relatives
visiting Argentina, but the relatives in question hadn't actually been
kidnapped.   In some cases said relatives were threatened in order to get
them to stay in their hotel.   This probably wouldn't work for a typical
hyper-connected IETFer, but if it's still going on we should be aware of
it.)

---

From: Juan Janczuk <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 11:52:55 -0300

Hi, Ted.

Virtual kidnapping needs at least a virtual victim and a close relative to fall in the trap, so I think will be no concern for anyone visiting BsAs.

About "Express Kidnapping", almost all are made in the "greater Buenos Aires", more precisely, in the "west zone" of the suburbs.

Except you plan to go there alone, I believe you have no reason to be afraid.

A tip, as in every big city nowadays, try not to be alone in places you do not know.

Any other question about BsAs, you could ask here, or by "unicast" mail.

Kind regards.
Juan.

PS: Re-reading your mail, the better advise I can give you, is to hangup any suspicious phone call. As the calls are made in a random pattern, there are little chance to be called again.

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:11:45 -0400
To: [email-masked]
CC: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [95attendees] Walking around Buenos Aires

Can any of the Argentinians on the list who follow the news comment on how common kidnappings and "virtual kidnappings" are now?   The virtual kidnapping phenomenon was pretty visible in the news last April, but I'm not seeing anything more recent about it, and of course there's minimal local context, like for example _where_ they were happening in Argentina.
(For those who haven't read about this, the main thing seems to have been that criminals were posing as kidnappers and convincing people to send relatively small ransoms to free their supposedly kidnapped relatives visiting Argentina, but the relatives in question hadn't actually been kidnapped.   In some cases said relatives were threatened in order to get them to stay in their hotel.   This probably wouldn't work for a typical hyper-connected IETFer, but if it's still going on we should be aware of it.)

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---

From: Rick Casarez <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:24:03 -0300

So I found my hotel (Hyatt) I am at can arrange an Architectural tour of
BA. It is a flat rate cost with a minimum of 3 hours. Kinda pricey for just
me but figured I would reach out and see if anyone who is here early like
me might want to join. Anyone interested?

There are a few others I may do as well. Most have a SME that leads the
tour which can be great.

-------------------
Cheers, Rick

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Juan Janczuk <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Hi, Ted.
>
> Virtual kidnapping needs at least a virtual victim and a close relative to
> fall in the trap, so I think will be no concern for anyone visiting BsAs.
>
> About "Express Kidnapping", almost all are made in the "greater Buenos
> Aires", more precisely, in the "west zone" of the suburbs.
>
> PS: Re-reading your mail, the better advise I can give you, is to hangup
> any suspicious phone call. As the calls are made in a random pattern,
> there are little chance to be called again.
>
> ------------------------------
> From: [email-masked]
> _______________________________________________ 95attendees mailing list
> [email-masked] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/95attendeeshe
>

---

From: Rick Casarez <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:28:02 -0300

There is also an Arts tour similar to the Architectural one. Art SME joins
you for a 3 hour tour. It is a flat rate as well which means more
affordable if a few people join.

As a FYI, I have not set a date/time for these yet since I am hoping to
entice a few to join me. :)

-------------------
Cheers, Rick

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:24 PM, Rick Casarez <[email-masked]>
wrote:

>> Virtual kidnapping needs at least a virtual victim and a close relative
>> to fall in the trap, so I think will be no concern for anyone visiting BsAs.
>>
>> Can any of the Argentinians on the list who follow the news comment on
>> how common kidnappings and "virtual kidnappings" are now?   The virtual

---

From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 12:36:48 -0400

Thanks, Juan.   I suppose this is really not much different than the
facebook "I'm in trouble in a foreign country" scam... :)

---

From: Fernando Gont <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:51:43 +0200

Ted,

> local context, like for example _where_ they were happening in Argentina.

What they call "virtual kidnappings" are simply folks which call a
relative, and ask for money arguing that you've been kidnapped. -- no
violence or anything implied -- just taking advantage of distracted people.

No need to worry. Bottom-line: there's lots of crap in the media. If
there's anything to worry about, we'll let you know.

> (For those who haven't read about this, the main thing seems to have
> been that criminals were posing as kidnappers and convincing people to
> send relatively small ransoms to free their supposedly kidnapped
> relatives visiting Argentina, but the relatives in question hadn't
> actually been kidnapped. 

Nope. It has happened wth random numbers. These people don't target
anyne in particular.

> In some cases said relatives were threatened
> in order to get them to stay in their hotel.   This probably wouldn't
> work for a typical hyper-connected IETFer, but if it's still going on we
> should be aware of it.)

I'd say the other way around: pay attention to the stuff that you're
signaled, and not to what's on the media.

Thanks!

Cheers,

---

From: Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:03:26 -0700

Its always helpfull to understand how far off the experience is that
i get visiting a foreign country on a conference from the experience that
natives to the country have. Most times you would not understand that just by
the personal experience passing between hotel, restaurant and venue because
its in neighborhoods that even the worst of countries try to keep safe &
sane for business travellers.

Personal rule of thumb, the higher the gini, the higher the violent crime rate
in socially seggregated quarters. And that puts Argentine pretty much in the same 
bucket as the USA. Similar gini, probably somewhat higher social seggregation. So
i wish we could have the funny discussion about pickpocketting in prague instead of
this BA discussion reminding me of a colleague shot to death on a business trip to Detroit.

And definitely +1 on japan as one of my favourite destinations. The way of the
samurai: Asphyxiation by simply taking the last subway at night in Tokyo. (just kidding).

Toerless

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 06:39:48AM +0000, Sudhin Jacob wrote:
> > I???m going to be so mind blown, having grown up in Tokyo where we leave 

-- 
---
Toerless Eckert, [email-masked]

---

From: David C Lawrence <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 17:52:17 -0400

Reasonable walking route at 8am and 5pm between the Hilton and the
InterContinental?  I'd have thought yes but wow does the list succeed
in making people wonder about the bogeymen on every other block.

https://goo.gl/maps/mig5RCE8H1C2

---

From: Mariano Absatz - el Baby <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:12:00 -0300

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 6:52 PM, David C Lawrence <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I'd take either through Diagonal Sur (google calls it 'via Macacha
Güemes', but all of the routes go through Macacha Güemes since that is the
street where the Hotel is located) or via Av de Mayo.

The route through Av. Huergo is ugly since Huergo is an avenue with very
heavy truck trafic and Moreno is not very nice.

--
Mariano Absatz - El Baby
www.clueless.com.ar

---

From: David C Lawrence <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:59:52 -0400

Paul Hoffman writes:
> I did that walk twice last night, 7PM and 11PM, and it was just fine. 
> There was a nice band playing in the plaza on the way back.

No issues this morning either, and fwiw I saw a lot of people walking
around casually with their phones out.  I pondered just how many I
could have grabbed and run off with if I didn't have a bum leg.  Ah,
the lost opportunities.

Oh, and apparently the Federal Police are setting up barricades around
Plaza de Mayo.  Maybe for the teachers' protests?  I only paid a
little attention to that thread and when/where they were supposed to
be.

---

From: Rick Casarez <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:16:49 -0300

Apparently every Thursday night the mothers of the disappeared protest
there. During the day today there will be a lorry strike (Lorry drivers
protesting taxes).

-------------------
Cheers, Rick

---

From: "Paul Hoffman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:26:10 -0300

--Paul Hoffman