Subject: [Add] HEADS UP: cool it down a bit, please

From: Lars Eggert <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 09:49:44 +0300

Hi,

it's clear that there are a variety of opinions being expressed about the scope and direction of ADD.

On one hand, it's useful that discussion is already happening before the BOF session, given the inevitable time constraints there.

On the other hand, the discussion seems to be getting somewhat heated, and the frequency and in part tone of the emails may make it difficult for other folks to contribute.

I'd therefore like to ask those of you who have been posting a lot over the last few days to maybe ask yourselves if you really have to respond right away and also consider if what you are about to share with the list is constructively moving us towards some sort of consensus.

Thanks,
Lars

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From: Rob Sayre <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 01:49:14 -0700

Hi,

I think everyone on the list means well, but there are two obvious issues
that the IETF hasn't addressed directly.

The first is that PKI infrastructure is probably not secure against
government actors. This issue is not a secret--it was in the New York
Times. Pretending otherwise can waste a lot of time.

The second issue is that DNS filtering doesn't really work all that well. I
know some people will call it "defense in depth", but the problem with that
argument is that it could be used to justify any ineffective measure.

Repressing these facts can cause a lot of distress, and might ultimately
harm the reputation of the IETF itself.

I agree that the discussion is a bit heated, having been on the receiving
end of several fairly strange emails. So, I'll try to be quiet as well.

thanks,
Rob

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 11:50 PM Lars Eggert <[email-masked]> wrote:

> On one hand, it's useful that discussion is already happening before the
> BOF session, given the inevitable time constraints there.
>
> On the other hand, the discussion seems to be getting somewhat heated, and
> the frequency and in part tone of the emails may make it difficult for
> other folks to contribute.
>
> I'd therefore like to ask those of you who have been posting a lot over
> the last few days to maybe ask yourselves if you really have to respond
> right away and also consider if what you are about to share with the list
> is constructively moving us towards some sort of consensus.
>
> Thanks,
> Lars
> --
> Add mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add
>

---

From: Neil Cook <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 10:03:32 +0100

> On 18 Jul 2019, at 09:49, Rob Sayre <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> The second issue is that DNS filtering doesn't really work all that well. I know some people will call it "defense in depth", but the problem with that argument is that it could be used to justify any ineffective measure.
> 
> Repressing these facts can cause a lot of distress, and might ultimately harm the reputation of the IETF itself.
> 

I would suggest that the above statement is an opinion not a fact. 

Also I’m not sure what anyone thinks of the effectiveness of DNS filtering (whether for malware protection, parental control, or to restrict dissidents etc.) is relevant to the debate on this list. The fact that is relevant is that DNS filtering is used for all of these use-cases.

Neil

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From: Paul Ebersman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 08:58:27 -0600

lars> I'd therefore like to ask those of you who have been posting a lot
lars> over the last few days to maybe ask yourselves if you really have
lars> to respond right away and also consider if what you are about to
lars> share with the list is constructively moving us towards some sort
lars> of consensus.

Great suggestion.

Might I also suggest we spend the time going over the relevant drafts so
that next week can be more effective/efficient? These are all things
we've discussed on this list.

  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-grover-add-policy-detection
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hal-adot-operational-considerations
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-dprive-bootstrap-dns-server
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sah-resolver-information