Subject: Re: time to turn on SPAM filtering on this list

From: Randy Presuhn <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:26:31 -0800 (PST)

Hi - 

> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 14:27:04 -0800
> From: Andy Bierman <[email-masked]>
> Organization: Cisco Systems, Inc.
> To: Randy Presuhn <[email-masked]>
> CC: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: time to turn on SPAM filtering on this list
> References: <[email-masked]>
...
> I am the owner of the [email-masked] and [email-masked]
> mailing lists.  That just means all the owner-foobar mail comes
> to me.  I'm not allowed to touch the majordomo server that runs
> these lists.  The organization that runs this server has no charter
> to support 'external' (e.g., IETF WG) mailing lists.  I have someone
> in that group who is spending some background time on SPAM filtering,
> but he has many things in the queue ahead of it. I've lined up a new
> home for the rmonmib WG list, which I hope to get done before the new 
> year. 
...

Our situation isn't as difficult as yours.  Although we have no control
over the BMC.COM email infrastructure, the people once known as Peer
Networks have managed to keep some control over the various distribution
lists hosted at PEER.COM addresses.  Of course, that has resulted in
difficult moments, like the times the firewalls were configured to
block all peer.com (and bgs.com and datatools.com) access.

The Majordomo code is available to Lauren, but I'd hope that she and
Bob Natale work out a solution to the subscriber/submitter problem
before deploying it.

In any case, your points are important ones. In volunteer organizations
like this, we have to be careful about where we spend our cycles.

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Randy Presuhn           Email: [email-masked] http://www.bmc.com     
 Voice: +1 408 616-3100  BMC Software, Inc.           965 Stewart Drive
 Fax:   +1 408 616-3101  Sunnyvale, California 94086  USA
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 In accordance with the BMC Communications Systems Use and Security
 Policy, I explicitly state that although my affiliation with BMC may be
 apparent, implied, or provided, my opinions are not necessarily those
 of BMC Software and that all external representations on behalf of
 BMC must first be cleared with a member of "the top management team."
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

---

From: Bob Natale <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:26:18 -0500

>At 11/6/98 03:26 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote:

Hi Randy,

<...>
>Bob Natale work out a solution to the subscriber/submitter problem

Thanks...I consider this completely up to BMC/Peer personnel...they
are donating the resources and I will do everything I an to cooperate
with whatever policy they deem best.

>like this, we have to be careful about where we spend our cycles.

Yes, that's true.  On the WinSNMP list, I sometimes go after SPAMMERs
and sometimes I don't...depending on current workload and how inclined
I feel to take an action that probably won't really help much.  It
certainly appears for now the much more is to be gained by getting
the following message out to all non-SPAMMERs:

	1.  Don't reply to SPAMMERs
	2.  Especially, don't include a list address in your
	    reply to SPAMMERs
	3.  Don't follow SPAMMERs' instructions wrt REMOVE, etc.
	4.  If you have the time and inclination to take some
	    action:
	4a. complain to the ISPs you can identify in the SPAM's
           headers (even if they are not guilty parties themselves,
           they will be motivated to help clean it up); and
	4b. complain to [email-masked];
	4c. in both 4a and 4b actions, include a copy of the
	    original SPAM *with full headers if at all possible*; and
	4d. do not copy the list on either 4a or 4b.

Cordially,

BobN
------------ ISO 9001 Registered Quality Supplier -----------
Bob Natale         | ACE*COMM              | 301-721-3000 [v]
Dir, Net Mgmt Prod | 704 Quince Orchard Rd | 301-721-3001 [f]
[email-masked]| Gaithersburg MD 20878 | www.acecomm.com
------------- Free downloads at www.winsnmp.com -------------

---

From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:31:17 +0100

1) About running Majordomo as a spam filter:
   I run lists under Majordomo, and have very little problem with spam.
   My solution runs in 2 parts:

   a) Configure the restrict_post keyword in config to have 2 files.
      Example for [email-masked]:

       restrict_post       = ietf-types ietf-types-submit

      Majordomo thinks "ietf-types-submit" is a mailing list, but
      Sendmail makes sure it's impossible to send mail to it, by not
      having any alias for it but "ietf-types-submit-request".

   b) A vigilant watcher of "BOUNCE" messages (me....arrgghh...)
      who, whenever a legitimate posting bounces, adds the poster
      to the relevant -submit list and approves the message.
      Most of the time, I don't think the poster notices the delay.

   Very few complaints so far.

2) About list hosting.

   In the past, the Internet Mail Consortium ([email-masked]) has
   been very good about hosting lists, and they have done a decent
   job of maintaining them.
   I don't know if Agentx is considered relevant to them, but it
   doesn't hurt to ask, if no other qualified host can be found.

Have fun!

                 Harald A

-- 
Harald Tveit Alvestrand, Maxware, Norway
[email-masked]