Subject: [Asrg] 4b Survey of solutions and place in taxonomy of solutions

From: "Teo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:35:18 -0000

Taxonomy:

I think that if  IPv6 was operational it will fulfill the requirements of

1. b) ii) Tracking and
2. b) iii) (2) How was it sent - delivery path info

I am not sure what the chances of IPv6 are of ever making it into the real
net, however for completeness reasons we should include its as part of a
solution that will make the job of tracing spammers much easier. Also it
will make blacklisting / watching address blocks possible because of the
hierarchical nature of IPv6 address allocation. There might be something in
the proposed 1to1 mapping between geographical areas and address blocks
allocation.

Spammers will not be able to hide anymore, or make the job of hiding
hardware intensive, therefore more costly, thus changing the business model,
hopefully crossing the line into making it non profitable.

Teo

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:11:54 -0800 (PST)

You're wrong here. While ipv6 provides delivery path tracking capabilities 
(which may or may not be supported by in-between routers) for ip 
packets, this is different communication layer and only helps in tracking 
where ip came from and what routers it traversed, this has nothing to do 
with SMTP where each mail in itself can be thought of as packet 
traversing serious of nodes and for email path tracking is basicly the 
received headers. I will not go into more details here, but if you want to 
understand more, please read good book on networking or see:
http://glossary.its.bldrdoc.gov/fs-1037/dir-025/_3680.htm
http://www2.rad.com/networks/1997/nettut/protocols.html

IPv4 and IPv4 are network layer, while SMTP is application layer and one 
does not help the other that much at least in our case.

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From: "Teo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 11:19:43 -0000

Hi, William

You are of course correct as to the division in layers etc, as per the OSI
model.

However, if something bothers you in one layer (spam email) you can dig in
the underlying layers (maybe not through SMTP, but do we limit ourselves to
SMTP?) to find out where the offending packets came from. You still have to
figure out what to do about it, however at the moment there is much IP
spoofing etc.

If a spam email source was traced to a single computer, then blacklisting
that computer will force the spammer to at least change the network card,
maybe more if the NIC is on the motherboard. The added time / money expended
by spammers might tip the balance into the unprofitable range.

in IPv6 there is a hardware component to the way the IP address is
constructed, also the plan is to allocate the non-hardware ranges by
geographical region. This might also help if you then set your email client
/ server spam filter to only accept mail from your chosen countries, leaving
out the wilder regions of the globe.

Regards

Teo

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email-masked]>
To: "Teo" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Asrg] 4b Survey of solutions and place in taxonomy of
solutions

---

From: Markus Stumpf <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:46:17 +0100

On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 11:19:43AM -0000, Teo wrote:
> constructed,

which will most likely never been seen outside the LAN, as routers will
either not route the addresses or will rewrite them.

> also the plan is to allocate the non-hardware ranges by

The plan is obsolete. Current allocation practise has already broken
this concept.
Also blocking mails based on geographical information is not a solution
to the problem.

Current allocation practise is to allocate at least /64 blocks. That are
2^64 addresses. This means everyone will have at least 2^64 addresses.
In a small company this will be fun: Hack one host and grab the
2^64-10 or so free addresses and you can send each spam mail from a
different IPv6 address.

IPv6 will not contribute to solving the spam problem in any way.

	\Maex

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