Subject: [Asrg] If You Don't Fix It, The Politicians Will

From: "Jed Margolin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 13:17:14 -0800

I am dismayed at the report that the IETF session was not productive.

You should consider the following:

1. The Internet has become an important part of the Civilized World's
infrastructure.

2. The Internet is threatened by the increasing volume of spam.

3. If the world's Internet Experts (that's you) cannot figure out how to fix
it, the Politicians *will*.

And how do you think they will do that, considering that politicians hardly
ever pass up an opportunity to control things and bring in more revenue?

I expect they will use the Postal Service as a model.

Yes, the Sender will pay.

While you might be thinking, "OK, I'm willing to pay $0.0001 per email if it
will eliminate spam," consider that:

1. The higher cost of snailmail has not stopped snailmail spam (junk mail).
[The Post Office makes money from junk mail.]

2. The higher cost of phone service has not stopped phone spammers
(Telemarketers). [The phone companies make money from selling telcom
services to Telemarketers.]

3. The rates for email will eventually be raised to the levels of snailmail
and telephone calls, perhaps higher, because of the value of almost instant
delivery.

They will justify it by offering premium services (just like the U.S. Postal
Service) of secure encryption (except for the backdoor for the 3-letter
agencies), certified delivery, delivery confirmation, etc.

They could conceivably require that *all* email be routed through their
servers in order to maintain proper control. (They'll call it the Electronic
Post Office.).

In any event, it will require new protocols and new software for everyone
wanting to use email.

So, if you don't fix the problem, the politicians will.

Their solution will cost everyone money, the democratic nature of the
Internet will be lost, everyone will have to get new software anyway, and it
won't even stop spam.

Jed Margolin

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From: Matt Sergeant <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 21:40:54 +0000 (GMT)

> I am dismayed at the report that the IETF session was not productive.

...

> So, if you don't fix the problem, the politicians will.

I'm sorry, but I must have missed your point. Should we now consider our 
bottoms roundly spanked and cough up a solution? We'll get right on it.

Matt.

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From: "Michael C. Berch" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:16:04 -0800

> it, the Politicians *will*.

Not necessarily at all.  One of the reasons for the seeming disarray 
and lack of consensus is that this may not, in fact, be the type of 
problem that is tractable by bodies like the IETF (and its associated 
groups like IRTF->ASRG and so forth).

Some problems are best solved by creating standards and protocols.

Some problems are best solved by the market.

Some problems are best solved by a combination of the two,

-- 
Michael C. Berch
[email-masked]

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From: "Paul Tenny" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:02:38 -0500

I have actually already suggested such a system. The only differences
were it did not cost anything, and it was not run by a government.

Reference:
https://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/asrg/current/msg01565.html

Absolutely no one commented on it, so it's merits are still totally
unknown. I'm working on a more detailed informational paper
but based on the lack of interest, I have serious doubts I'd be
doing anything but wasting my time sharing it with anyone.

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From: Kee Hinckley <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 00:10:17 -0500

>https://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/asrg/current/msg01565.html

Actually you don't seem to mention who would run it.  However, what 
you proposed was taking something that is currently highly 
distributed and centralizing it.  I don't think that's going to fly.
-- 
Kee Hinckley
http://www.puremessaging.com/        Junk-Free Email Filtering
http://commons.somewhere.com/buzz/   Writings on Technology and Society

I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept
responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate
everyone else's.
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From: "Paul Tenny" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:01:58 -0500

Depends on how much is centralized. If you don't keep a
central repository for logins, you could keep one for "registered"
servers that follow guidelines, which would allow you to enforce
things with them that are best standard practices. I didn't go any
further than what I said because nobody seemed interested in
discussing it. I'm happy to however, there's an entire world
worth of possible options when working with a new system.

Centalizing things isn't necessarily bad, and that's not neccesiarly
exclusive. Filesharing networks found out that they can work
if they are decentralized, but they work *better* with at least some
coordination. I suspect the same goes for DNS, if you took away
the root servers it'd be almost useless.