Subject: RE: [Asrg] Will someone PLEASE remove [email-masked]?

From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:52:55 -0800

> My Dear God this is annoying. Would someone PLEASE remove this guy 
> from the list?
> Please?

Seconded, this guy is sending me more SPAM than the whole of Nigeria.

For some reason the emails keep bypassing my spam filters.

Perhaps someone could forge an UNSUBSCRIBE to the mailbot? Oh 
forgot, there is no such thing as forged mails...

> disclaimer: I do not and never have worked for, and barely 
> can spell, Verisign.

That is VeriSign, the s is capitalized, don't ask me why, once
upon a time there was a company called MicroSoft that did the
same thing, try sys 6502 on your Commodore PET...

		Phill
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---

From: wayne <[email-masked]>
Date: 29 Mar 2003 12:54:10 -0600

> Seconded, this guy is sending me more SPAM than the whole of Nigeria.

Ok, this might make an interesting test case.

Is [email-masked] spamming people?

Are we, by all subscribing to this list, consenting to email from
others who are on this list?

All of the emails from [email-masked] are slightly different, so do
they count as bulk?

Are these messages commercial?

-wayne

---

From: Kee Hinckley <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:45:52 -0500

>Is [email-masked] spamming people?

No.  There is simply a bug in the software he is using.

His software, without or without the bug, is extremely anti-social, 
and is (in my view) grounds for expulsion from this particular list. 
But that's a social problem specific to challenge/response systems.
-- 
Kee Hinckley
http://www.puremessaging.com/        Junk-Free Email Filtering
http://commons.somewhere.com/buzz/   Writings on Technology and Society

I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept
responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate
everyone else's.
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---

From: Brad Templeton <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:53:40 -0800

> Is [email-masked] spamming people?

Sort of -- but what he's really doing is violating the rule, fairly well
established though not RFCd properly, that an autoresponder MUST NOT respond
to mail which has a "Precedence: bulk" header.

This is not the first time this has come up.  Every so often somebody writes
a broken Vacation program or other autoresponder which responds to mailing
list mail, and everybody who posts to the list gets a response from it,
and they all get annoyed, and the person is taken off the list until they
get better software.  (Or sometimes the list manager realizes they should
be putting the Precdence: bulk header on the list mail.)

> others who are on this list?

Independent question.  Unless otherwise specified, then yes, by POSTING to 
the list, you are indeed soliciting replies to your postings.   Subscribing
to the list only solicits mails from the list, of course.

The idea that if you send me E-mail (by whatever means, be it directly or
a list) that I can't reply to you seems ludicrous to me.  If anti-spam thought
has led people to that conclusion, it's another sign of the emotional damage
spam has caused.

Can I auto-reply to you?  If I'm the list manager, certainly.  If I am a list
member, probably not, but it's a purely technical question, not so much a spam
one.   This question is far older than the spam problem.

(Though I will note that the term spam came into its current meaning not
to refer to commercial postings but in fact to runaway robot softare which
flooded first MUDs, and later USENET.    In fact, Monday is the 10th
anniversary of the first use of the term "spam" on USENET to refer to a
mass posting.  In this case, it was Dick Depew's AARM program which went amok
and flooded news.admin!)

Also coming up (I am going to do a small article) in May is the 25th anniversary
of the first E-mail spam, sent by a DEC salesman to everybody on the Arpanet
on the west coast.)

> Are these messages commercial?

To me that's not relevant, though I know some consider it relevant to spam.
Do we even know this guy works at mailkey, or could he just be somebody
with a mailbox there.   
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---

From: Vernon Schryver <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 16:39:10 -0700 (MST)

> From: wayne <[email-masked]>

> ...

Some commentators to the contrary, "commercial" is not a suitable part
of any definition of "spam" that the IETF/IRTF can consider, because
it is impossible for computers or even people to consistently decide
whether a message is "commercial."

The word "spam" is also not useful, because it is impossible to
get the world to agree on a definition.

However, the messags from [email-masked] are clearly both unsolicited
and bulk.  

Because I've white-listed this mailing list, I've had to take other
steps to deal with the [email-masked] UBE.

Vernon Schryver    [email-masked]
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