Subject: Re: [Asrg] Economic model is borken. (sic.) Let's fix it

From: David Jameson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 05:32:16 -0500

Yes, typically when you buy something online, you KNOW to expect an email 
response pretty quickly so you can go look in your 'holding pen' for it.

However, this problem could be solved completely in the short term if we 
could get merchants to provide an extra field in the form you fill in. You 
as a user would add any text or code you like to that field. When the 
merchant sends you any email, they include the contents of that field in 
the subject line of their message.
You then create a single permission rule (either in your spam blocker or 
indeed in any email client that supports basic filters) that allows 
anything with that text to come through. Since each user would have a 
completely different code there, it would be unbreakable by spammers.

D

>Sometimes I whitelist the domain beforehand, most times I just check the
>'holding pen' folder for a message from the merchant some time later.
>
>--
>
>Nate Waddoups

___________________________
Dr. David H. Jameson
Founder and CTO, DigiPortal Software Inc.

"Winning isn't everything but losing isn't anything"
                                                                     Irwin Cohen

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From: "Eric S. Johansson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 09:19:04 -0500

David Jameson wrote:
> Yes, typically when you buy something online, you KNOW to expect an 
> email response pretty quickly so you can go look in your 'holding pen' 
> for it.

this is atrocious human factors.  The whole point behind an antispam system is 
so that you don't have to look at the stuff.

> could get merchants to provide an extra field in the form you fill in. 
> You as a user would add any text or code you like to that field. When 
> the merchant sends you any email, they include the contents of that 
> field in the subject line of their message.

again, human factors nightmare.  My mother-in-law (74-year-old lovely person) 
wouldn't be able to cope.  To give you a feel for her level of skill, she uses 
an I-opener Web terminal and is quite comfortable sending e-mail and browsing 
the Web.  She's even getting comfortable google.  In contrast she doesn't know 
how to operate a VCR and is suspicious of remote controls.  Telling her she 
needs to add a special field and have that field found by antispam filter 
whenever she orders something online?  Not bloody likely.

A stamp model simplifies the entire process because it is done without requiring 
any human interaction.

--- eric

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From: Vernon Schryver <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 08:59:44 -0700 (MST)

> From: "Eric S. Johansson" <[email-masked]>

> ...
>A stamp model simplifies the entire process because it is done
> without requiring any human interaction.

The first part of that is right, but the second part is wrong.  You
require her to sign up for stamps, to agree to require them on her
incoming bulk-looking mail.  That won't happen.  She can see the
benefit of using email and google, but the benefit of receiving somewhat
less spam is too theoretical.  When you tell her that signing up will
block a lot of spam, but not all, she unconsciously think you're
exaggerating and never get around to it.

Vernon Schryver    [email-masked]
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From: David Jameson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 10:14:16 -0500

In theory I agree with you completely - but our customers don't have any 
problem with it. In particular, you only have to look for the few moments 
after you complete a purchase online and are EXPECTING an email - no 
different than going to the post office to pick up a package rather than 
waiting for it to be delivered.

>this is atrocious human factors.  The whole point behind an antispam 
>system is so that you don't have to look at the stuff.

Understood - and the solution here would be to automate it, which of course 
requires some cooperation between all vendors.

>again, human factors nightmare.  My mother-in-law (74-year-old lovely 
>person) wouldn't be able to cope.  To give you a feel for her level of 
>skill, she uses an I-opener Web terminal and is quite comfortable sending 
>e-mail and browsing the Web.  She's even getting comfortable google.  In 
>contrast she doesn't know how to operate a VCR and is suspicious of remote 
>controls.  Telling her she needs to add a special field and have that 
>field found by antispam filter whenever she orders something online?  Not 
>bloody likely.

I agree with this too - I'm convinced that this is the long term solution.

>A stamp model simplifies the entire process because it is done without 
>requiring any human interaction.
>
>--- eric

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From: "Eric S. Johansson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:15:25 -0500

> exaggerating and never get around to it.

sorry.  Stamps are generated automatically through the outbound e-mail filter. 
see: http://www.camram.org/camram_engine.html  section "Outbound messages"

No purchases necessary, no human interaction provides better user experience.