Subject: RE: [Asrg] More clueless spam bounces

From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:08:18 -0800

> Did the other person send mail to the gentleman at Verisign?  

Yes, he did, on five occasions at the last count. Mail sent
to [email-masked] is treated very differently by my mail
processing here to mail sent to the list. A mail sent to the
list will only show up on my exchange account, a mail sent to
my personal email will go to my Rim pager.

> I guessed
> from context that the only private mail was from the Verisign employee
> to the other person, probably consisting of additional, private copies
> of the Verisign employee's public messages.  Is that guess wrong?

Actually I was sending an off list comment about their lobbying
work, looking to see if coordination might be possible. But at
this stage I have come to a conclusion about Troy's organization.

> If that guess is right, wouldn't it be best for everyone to stop
> sending those duplicate copies?

Actually that is another issue, which I mentioned under 'lets
fix mailing lists'. The problem as I see it is that there should be
three options for mailing list messages, reply to the original 
author, reply to the list and reply to all.

The ad-hoc mailing lists that accumulate through mailing list
reply-to start to get very annoying.

This is something that can be addressed through a BCP draft.

> For decades I've felt that extra, private copies of one's public words
> suggest an unseemly belief that their importance that justifies heroic
> efforts to ensure they are not lost.

Sometimes it is useful to know that everyone will get the reply,
for example some people may be CC'd who are not on the list.
This can lead to a whole series of sticky problems, how to fix that
one without revealing whether someone is on the list or creating
a relay?

		Phill
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From: Chuq Von Rospach <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:43:07 -0800

> author, reply to the list and reply to all.

Mailman 2.1 has put some significant work in this area. By supporting 
the List-* headers, it makes reply/reply-all/reply-list possible, if 
only mail clients would support it. The information is now there. its' 
also gone a step further, and allows users to "opt out" of the message 
from the list if the list sees that address in the To: or CC: lines, so 
that the user will end up only getting one copy, thus (mostly) ending 
that argument....

---

From: J C Lawrence <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 00:58:35 -0800

On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:43:07 -0800 

>> Actually that is another issue, which I mentioned under 'lets fix
>> mailing lists'. The problem as I see it is that there should be three
>> options for mailing list messages, reply to the original author,
>> reply to the list and reply to all.

> only mail clients would support it. The information is now there. 

Minor correction: The RFC 2369 etc headers (list-*) have been supported
by Mailman though most (all?) of v2.0.x (couple years now), as well as
the current v2.1.  This is not new stuff for Mailman.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
[email-masked]               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
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