Subject: Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis

From: "Steven G. Willis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 05:02:02 +0000

On 07/06/2003 at 00:02 it was written:

>At 03:47 AM 7/6/2003 +0000, Mark McCarron continued his neverending babble:

Please, can not someone finally get rid of this individual once and for all?

The total lack of understanding on the part of Mr. McCarron, and his continued abuse of the resources of this list, should be clear enough even to the most discerning of standards.

================================================================
Steven G. Willis     [email-masked]       772.794.9494
Deep Sky Technologies, Inc.          http://www.deepskytech.com/
http://www.badchickens.com/         http://www.store-secure.com/
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---

From: Yakov Shafranovich <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 00:02:05 -0400

At 03:47 AM 7/6/2003 +0000, Mark McCarron wrote:
>...
>>
>>>>4. Participate in defining the consent framework.
>>>
>>>Mark's Response:
>>>
>>>The consent framework will consist of white and black lists.  There will 
>>>be no greylisting.  A complete opt-out will be allowed by 'GIEIS'.
>>
>>The group's consent framework is what we are currently working on.
>
>Mark's Response:
>
>With all the self-interested posts that appear here with inaccurate 
>information, a coherent consent framework is highly unlikely to develop.

We are chartered to created such framework 
(http://www.irtf.org/charters/asrg.html) and a draft is available. If you 
had been following the discussions for the last few days you would have 
seen that they are concentrated on that framework. If you do not wish to 
contribute to anything else than your own proposal, then create your own 
mailing list for its discussion and leave the group. This is what the 
author of the SPF proposal did.

Additionally, this is a technical forum not a Madison Avenue marketing 
firm. We are not interested in your marketing materials, or promises of 
salvation from porn and spam. We are looking at technical details only and 
do not wish to be informed of "how many jobs" your proposal will create or 
how much money it will make.

-------
".... when suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her .... but 
when the Rabbit actually took a watch out of its waistcoat-pocket, and 
looked at it, and then hurried on, Alice started to her feet, for it 
flashed across her mind that she had never before seen a rabbit with either 
a waistcoat-pocket, or a watch to take out of it, and burning with 
curiosity, she ran across the field after it, and fortunately was just in 
time to see it pop down a large rabbit-hole under the hedge. In another 
moment down went Alice after it, never once considering how in the world 
she was to get out again. The rabbit-hole went straight on like a tunnel 
for some way, and then dipped suddenly down, so suddenly that Alice had not 
a moment to think about stopping herself before she found herself falling 
down a very deep well ....."
--------

---

From: "Mark McCarron" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 03:47:56 +0000

This post relates to the 'GIEIS' system.

Version 0.005 - Updated 6th July 2003

GIEIS - Global ISP Email Identity System - The Ultimate Anti-Spam System
a.k.a. - The Digital Reaper

© Including intellectual copyright, Mark McCarron 2003, All rights reserved

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/giza.necropolis

Mark McCarron

>From: Yakov Shafranovich <[email-masked]>
>To: "Mark McCarron" <[email-masked]>,[email-masked]
>Subject: Re: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis
>Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 22:39:27 -0400
>
>At 02:21 AM 7/5/2003 +0000, Mark McCarron wrote:
>>...
>>
>>>Message: 14
>>>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:08:57 -0400
>>>To: [email-masked]
>>>From: Yakov Shafranovich <[email-masked]>
>>>Subject: [Asrg] 6. Solutions - Replacing SMTP - GIEIS Analysis
>>>
>>>As many group members have noticed in the last few days, Mr. McCarron has
>>>been posting a large volume of messages to the list regarding the GIEIS
>>>system that he is developing. The following is my analysis of his 
>>>proposed
>>>system and how it falls within the consent framework (current draft at
>>>http://www.solidmatrix.com/research/asrg/asrg-consent-framework.html). 
>>>All
>>>quotes are from (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/giza.necropolis/).
>>>
>>>---------
>>>ANALYSIS
>>>
>>>The GIEIS system seems to be a convergence of two proposals: message
>>>tracking and centralization. Message tracking has been proposed by John
>>>Fenley as part of the C/R protocol and other proposals (callback, etc.).
>>>Centralization is not new but is similar to the other proposals on the 
>>>list
>>>especially Walter Dnes's "Business Email" proposal. This is also similar 
>>>to
>>>the proposal by someone else who suggested registration of all SMTP 
>>>servers
>>>and perhaps issuing digital certificates to them.
>>
>>
>>Mark's Response:
>>
>>No.  'GIEIS' is a completely new architecture and protocol design for web 
>>based communications.  It is not similar to issuing digital certificates.
>>'GIEIS' creates an additional layer in the net and a buffer for 
>>communication protocols from end users.  By securing this inner 
>>communications layer with a centralised system based on encrypted 
>>communications it eliminates any fraudulent access.
>
>What is essentially being created is a centralized system combined with 
>messages tracking. The details are implementation.
>

Mark's Response:

No.  Please refer to the 'GIEIS' homepage and study the proposed system.

>>....
>>
>>>
>>>SUGGESTIONS TO MR. MCCARON
>>>
>>>1. Take all the BS out of your proposal and separate the main idea from 
>>>the
>>>implementation details.
>>
>>
>>Mark's Response:
>>
>>Please detail the 'BS'.
>
>Anything not related to email. All the parts about port scanning, viruses, 
>saving children, creating jobs, etc. are extra they can be detailed in the 
>implementation details and marketing materials. This group is concerned 
>with technical details and a concise technical draft is what we are looking 
>for.
>

Mark's Response:

'GIEIS' is a complete solution to many issues including spam.  Spam is also 
not an 'email only' issue.

>
>
>>>2. Stop thinking that your system will take over the Net - any system
>>>implemented will need to accommodate multiple implementation details. You
>>>will be better off on proposing a system like Truste.
>>
>>
>>Mark's Response:
>>
>>'GIEIS' would be the center of the net for completely accurate information 
>>of various kinds. A commercial body could never secure the Internet, it 
>>must be a public body.  No one needs another cert. authority what they 
>>need is a corner-stone behind the Internet that can be trusted.  American 
>>business is losing $10 Billion a year to spam if we used even £2 Billion 
>>on wages alone we could have a staff of over 130,000 people at £15,000 per 
>>year dedicated to the fight against internet fraud.
>
>Look at ICANN - its non profit - and then look at IcannWatch.com. Also, we 
>are looking for a concise technical document, marketing materials are 
>irrelevant - they just confuse.
>

Mark's Response:

Technical details are available at the homepage.

>
>
>>>3. CREATE A SEPARATE mailing list or discussion area for your proposal
>>>where you can work out the kinks like the SPF proposal's author did. Then
>>>present us with a draft.
>>
>>
>>Mark's Response:
>>
>>Here will do just fine.  'GIEIS' has no 'kinks' to work out.  Its a 
>>complete working system.  The overview is being drafted in public from 
>>compiled notes on the system.  Special focus has been given on areas of 
>>concern and thus developed at a faster rate.  The GSMTP protocol is now 
>>under development.
>
>There is no need to carry the discussion on this proposal within our 
>mailing list. Please create a separate list for discussion. When you have 
>written a concise technical draft without all the marketing BS in it, then 
>we will take a look at it. Otherwise, this is just a waste of CPU cycles.
>

Mark's Response:

No one is asking you to look at anything.

Mark's Response:

>
>
>>>5. Give credit where its due, when you use someone's idea - give credit.
>>
>>Mark's Response:
>>
>>Credit will be given where credit is due, however, the 'GIEIS' 
>>architecture is unique.
>
>Yet there are numerous proposals being lumped in the current proposal which 
>were not there in the original v.0.0.1 proposal and clearly come from our 
>mailing list. If you want to use someone's idea from the list, give credit.

Mark's Response:

Nonsense. v.0.001 onwards is a compliation of notes on the system.  Aspects 
will appear as documentation is written.

Mark McCarron.

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