Subject: [Fwd: I-D Action:draft-saintandre-atompub-notify-06.txt]

From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:38:11 -0600

FYI.

The authors plan to finish off this specification in the near future, so
feedback is welcome.

Peter

-------- Original Message --------

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.

	Title           : Transporting Atom Notifications over the Extensible
Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP)
	Author(s)       : P. Saint-Andre, et al.
	Filename        : draft-saintandre-atompub-notify-06.txt
	Pages           : 14
	Date            : 2007-10-02

This memo describes a method for notifying interested parties about
changes in syndicated information encapsulated in the Atom feed
format, where such notifications are delivered via an extension to
the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) for publish-
subscribe functionality.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-saintandre-atompub-notify-06.txt

---

From: Sam Ruby <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:09:28 -0400

> The authors plan to finish off this specification in the near future, so

Are there any known implementations?  In particular, subscribers?  I'd 
gladly start publishing if I knew that somebody was subscribing...

- Sam Ruby

---

From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 11:35:48 -0600

> gladly start publishing if I knew that somebody was subscribing...

Chicken, meet egg.

Egg, meet chicken.

We are pushing hard to get XMPP server vendors to implement the XMPP
publish-subscribe extension, on which this atom-notify work depends.
That is happening now. We need to wait for that development work to show
up in released code (should happen over the next few months), and then
for that released code to be deployed. Personally I can't wait to deploy
it at the jabber.org service, which runs ejabberd. Once it is deployed
in some of the larger XMPP services, I think we'll see more widespread
implementation on the client side because we're planning to use it for
all sorts of fun social networking applications (real-time tune sharing
a la Pandora or last.fm) and user avatars and so on. So the atom-notify
functionality will be able to piggyback on that work on the server side
and client side (it's just another payload). Also we may see services
like Twitter and Jaiku pick it up -- at least I'm leaning on them to do
so. ;-)

Once this starts to come together I will report back or blog about it or
somesuch...

Peter

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

---

From: "James Holderness" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 18:56:17 +0100

> gladly start publishing if I knew that somebody was subscribing...

I was just thinking about suggesting this to you in the comments on your 
XMPP post. Subscribing to a feed via instant messaging has long been on my 
todo list of cool features that nobody but me would care about. It'll 
probably be years before I have an implementation though (precisely because 
nobody but me would care). When I do, I'll be sure to get back to you.

Regards
James

---

From: Sylvain Hellegouarch <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 12:14:16 -0600

James Holderness wrote:
> XMPP post. Subscribing to a feed via instant messaging has long been on 
> my todo list of cool features that nobody but me would care about. It'll 
> probably be years before I have an implementation though (precisely 
> because nobody but me would care). When I do, I'll be sure to get back 
> to you.

Actually plenty of people do care about it but as Peter mentioned, 
implementation are lagging a bit. Although ejabberd has quite a lot of 
modules there already. Combined this to the agsXMPP .NET library and you 
can already do lots of stuff.

- Sylvain

---

From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:21:59 -0600

> because nobody but me would care). When I do, I'll be sure to get back

In fact the IM integration features of microblogging services like
Twitter and Jaiku seem to be very popular. Whether IM integration (or,
to be more precise, real-time notification) makes sense in more
traditional blogging scenarios remains to be seen. I happen to use my IM
client as a feed reader using the Mimir service, but I'm probably in the
minority...

Peter

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

---

From: "James Holderness" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 02:56:40 +0100

Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote:
>> Subscribing to a feed via instant messaging has long been on 
>> my todo list of cool features that nobody but me would care about.
> 
> Actually plenty of people do care about it

I meant people that use the products I write.

Regards
James

---

From: Sylvain Hellegouarch <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 20:07:09 -0600

James Holderness wrote:
>>> Subscribing to a feed via instant messaging has long been on my todo 
>>> list of cool features that nobody but me would care about.
>>

Ah well... life is tough sometimes :)

- Sylvain

---

From: Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:12:44 -0700

On Oct 4, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:

>> It'll

As you know well Peter ;)  the client that gets Jabber notifications  
of feed changes doesn't need to be an IM client.  The BIFF BoF last  
IETF was about getting email clients that wanted realtime  
notifications of mail store events to implement jabber or SIP in  
order to get those -- rather than try to turn some request-oriented  
protocol into a notification protocol.  I don't know where this will  
end up, but I certainly wanted to encourage people to consider using  
two protocols between client and server -- a request-oriented one for  
heavy data retrieval, searching and the like, and a notification- 
oriented one for change events.  Some clients and helper applications  
will only need to implement one of the two, while a rich powerful  
client would probably in the long run implement both.

FWIW, the BIFF BoF seemed to generate interest in discussing use  
cases and narrowing scope, but since then nothing has really happened  
due to lack of activity, and there won't be a follow-on meeting, BoF  
or WG, in Vancouver.

Lisa