Subject: [AVTCORE] I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-monarch-14.txt

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 19:25:56 -0700

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Monitoring Architecture for RTP
	Author(s)       : Qin Wu
                          Geoff Hunt
                          Philip Arden
	Filename        : draft-ietf-avtcore-monarch-14.txt
	Pages           : 27
	Date            : 2012-05-28

   This memo proposes an architecture for extending RTP Control Protocol
   (RTCP) with a new RTCP Extended Reports (XR) (RFC3611) block type to
   report new metrics regarding media transmission or reception quality,
   following RTCP guidelines established in RFC5968.  This memo suggests
   that a new block should contain a single metric or a small number of
   metrics relevant to a single parameter of interest or concern, rather
   than containing a number of metrics which attempt to provide full
   coverage of all those parameters of concern to a specific
   application.  Applications may then "mix and match" to create a set
   of blocks which covers their set of concerns.  Where possible, a
   specific block should be designed to be re-usable across more than
   one application, for example, for all of voice, streaming audio and
   video.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-avtcore-monarch-14.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-avtcore-monarch-14.txt

The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-monarch/

---

From: Magnus Westerlund <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 15:49:04 +0200

WG, Colin and Albrecht,

Please check if you think the changes in this version are appropriate.

Cheers

Magnus

On 2012-05-29 04:25, [email-masked] wrote:
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-- 

Magnus Westerlund

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---

From: Magnus Westerlund <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 16:28:13 +0200

WG,

My individual review of the changes are the following.

1. I think section 3 would really benefit from a figure of the possible
locations of RTP monitors. I think it should focus on the location
rather than the full flow of the collected information. Thus become
simpler than the removed figure.

2. I also wonder if we shouldn't really remove the word architecture
from this document and instead have the title be "Guidelines for the RTP
Monitoring Framework"

3. In some sense I wished we could keep the old figure 1 somewhere in
the document. But I guess it would require even more discussion around
the management system.

Cheers

Magnus

-- 

Magnus Westerlund

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From: Albrecht Schwarz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 17:34:46 +0100 (BST)

OK for me.
-Albrecht

----- Ursprüngliche Message -----
> Von: Magnus Westerlund <[email-masked]>
> An: IETF AVTCore WG <[email-masked]>; Colin Perkins <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
> CC: 
> Gesendet: 15:49 Mittwoch, 30.Mai 2012
> Betreff: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-monarch-14.txt
> 
> WG, Colin and Albrecht,
> 
>>  A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Core 
> Maintenance Working Group of the IETF.
>>

---

From: Qin Wu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 10:03:24 +0800

Hi, Magnus:
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Magnus Westerlund" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-monarch-14.txt

WG,

[Qin]: I thought the figure 1 has already been incoporated into setion 3 and replaced by the description in the section 3.
Based on your comment, I can propose to have the following figure

                            +------------|
         ------------------>|            |<------------------
         |                  | Management |                  |
         |                  |   System   <-----             |
         |                  |            |    |             |
         |                  +------^-----+    |             |
         |                         |          |             |
         |                         |          |             |
         |                 +---------------+  |             |
         |                 |               |  |             |
         |                 | Third Party   |  |             |
         |                 | RTP Monitor   |  |             |
         |                 |               |  |             |
         |                 +---------------+  |             |
         |                                    |             |
 +-------|-------+         +Intermediate --+  |    +--------|------+
 |RTP Sender     |         | RTP System    |  |    |RTP Receiver   |
 |               |         |               |---    |               |
 | +-----------+ |         | +-----------+ |       | +-----------+ |
 | |RTP Monitor| |  RTP    | |RTP Monitor| | RTP   | |RTP Monitor| |
 | +-----------+ | Stream  | +-----------+ |Stream | +-----------+ |
 |               |-------->|               |------>|               |
 |               |         |               |       |               |
 +---------------+         +---------------+       +---------------+
Is this figure what you are looking for?

[Qin]: Are you proposing to replace the word "architecture" with "framework"?

[Qin]: Management system may not have RTP functionality. Therefore shouldn't it be
beyond scope of the RTP monitoring architecture? In the current draft, we have briefly 
discussed interaction between RTP monitor and management system with the following
description:
"
The RTP monitor also exposes real time Application QoS/QoE metric
   information in the appropriate report block format (e.g.,RTCP XR or
   other non-RTP means) to the management system. 
"

Cheers

Magnus

-- 

Magnus Westerlund

_______________________________________________
Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt

---

From: Magnus Westerlund <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 08:41:27 +0200

> Based on your comment, I can propose to have the following figure

Mostly. I don't know if we need to have the Management system in the
picture. What I was looking for was the lower part. The one thing I
think is poorly covered in the above figure is how a third party monitor
gets to the information it monitors. To my understanding it exists in
two flavors. A passive monitor that sees the RTP/RTCP stream pass it, or
a system that gets sent RTCP reports but not RTP and uses that to
collect information.

> [Qin]: Are you proposing to replace the word "architecture" with "framework"?

No, you will have to be a bit more intelligent in selecting words. But
Architecture implies an explanation of how things are supposed to fit to
together in total. I don't see this document reaching this bar. That was
why I suggested a new title. Based on that title one can remove the use
of architecture with calling it description of the frame work like for
section 3 and Guidelines for the framework for section 5. What to
replace architecture with depends on the context.

>    other non-RTP means) to the management system. 

In reality I think a RTP monitoring architecture do need to discuss the
management side of things. But this document isn't up to the task. It
describes the RTP side of the monitoring. That is why I think calling it
a framework might be better and not imply that all pieces are present.

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund

---

From: Qin Wu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 16:35:28 +0800

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Magnus Westerlund" <[email-masked]>
To: "Qin Wu" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtcore-monarch-14.txt

[Qin]: You are right, actually these two flavors have been described in the figur 1 of previous version -13.
I can fix the figure I proposed above with the following change:

                           +---------------+
                           |               |
                       |-->| Third Party   |
                       |   | RTP Monitor   |
                       |   |               |
                       |   +---------|-----+
                       |Metric Report|
                       ---------------
                          RTP Stream

                                           Metric
+------- -------+ Metric  +Intermediate --+Report +---------------+
|RTP Sender     | Report  | RTP System    |       |RTP Receiver   |
| +-----------+ |         | +-----------+ |       | +-----------+ |
| |RTP Monitor|<------------|RTP Monitor|<----------|RTP Monitor| |
| +-----------+ |         | +-----------+ |       | +-----------+ |
|               |  RTP    |               | RTP   |               |
|               | Stream  |               |Stream |               |
|               |-------->|               |------>|               |
+---------------+         +---------------+       +---------------+

[Qin]: Agree.

[Qin]: I see.