From shida@ntt-at.com Mon Nov 2 16:49:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9A73A67D7 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:49:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.443, BAYES_05=-1.11, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2GV303DP47wY for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway05.websitewelcome.com (gateway05.websitewelcome.com [67.18.10.9]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CF523A67A3 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 21513 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2009 00:58:11 -0000 Received: from gator465.hostgator.com (69.56.174.130) by gateway05.websitewelcome.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2009 00:58:11 -0000 Received: from fl1-122-135-49-232.tky.mesh.ad.jp ([122.135.49.232]:49225 helo=[192.168.1.4]) by gator465.hostgator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N57aW-0003qi-PR for bliss@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:49:32 -0600 From: Shida Schubert Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:49:31 +0900 Message-Id: <6EC5862C-2C18-499E-B509-3D4508F7E6A4@ntt-at.com> To: bliss@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1076) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1076) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator465.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ntt-at.com Subject: [BLISS] Agenda for IETF76 X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:49:14 -0000 I just uploaded the agenda for IETF 76. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/agenda/bliss.html I have only received a request from Alan for him to share any issues that may come up during the on-going WGLC on Shared Appearance. So if there are no outstanding issues raised during this WGLC, we are going to cancel our session at IETF 76. BTW Call-park is going under pre-WGLC reviews by selected experts right now and we will be doing the same for Call-Completion very soon. We can use few more reviewers for Call-Park and some for Call-Completion so if people are willing to put some cycles to review these documents prior to WGLC please let Scott and I know. Regards Shida From andrew.hutton@siemens-enterprise.com Tue Nov 3 05:43:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2191B3A69E5 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 05:43:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q-+vca6ok+Yz for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 05:43:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from thoth.sbs.de (thoth.sbs.de [192.35.17.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C5653A69B7 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 05:43:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.siemens.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thoth.sbs.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nA3Dhhcw019156; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:43:43 +0100 Received: from DEMCHP99ET2MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.25.131.241]) by mail2.siemens.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nA3DhhdA006028; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:43:43 +0100 Received: from DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([169.254.3.83]) by DEMCHP99ET2MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.25.131.241]) with mapi; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:43:42 +0100 From: "Hutton, Andrew" To: Shida Schubert Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:43:47 +0100 Thread-Topic: [BLISS] Agenda for IETF76 Thread-Index: AcpcH4Tud9sayD/kQHSZ6yQ5tgwGWAAa2FwA Message-ID: <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B9205823989CE@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> References: <6EC5862C-2C18-499E-B509-3D4508F7E6A4@ntt-at.com> In-Reply-To: <6EC5862C-2C18-499E-B509-3D4508F7E6A4@ntt-at.com> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "bliss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BLISS] Agenda for IETF76 X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:43:26 -0000 Hi Shida, I will review the call park draft and also try to find time for another loo= k at the call completion draft. Regards Andy >-----Original Message----- >From: bliss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:bliss-bounces@ietf.org] >On Behalf Of Shida Schubert >Sent: 03 November 2009 00:50 >To: bliss@ietf.org >Subject: [BLISS] Agenda for IETF76 > > >I just uploaded the agenda for IETF 76. > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/agenda/bliss.html > > I have only received a request from Alan for him to share any >issues that may come up during the on-going WGLC on Shared >Appearance. > > So if there are no outstanding issues raised during this >WGLC, we are going to cancel our session at IETF 76. > > BTW Call-park is going under pre-WGLC reviews by selected experts >right now and we will be doing the same for Call-Completion very soon. > > We can use few more reviewers for Call-Park and some for >Call-Completion so if people are willing to put some cycles to review >these documents prior to WGLC please let Scott and I know. > > Regards > Shida >_______________________________________________ >BLISS mailing list >BLISS@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss > From shida@ntt-at.com Tue Nov 3 07:24:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A2783A6832 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 07:24:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.875 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.875 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.390, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x4QinIdgnuTG for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 07:24:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway06.websitewelcome.com (gateway06.websitewelcome.com [67.18.55.3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 917A23A6830 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 07:24:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 7894 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2009 15:41:06 -0000 Received: from gator465.hostgator.com (69.56.174.130) by gateway06.websitewelcome.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2009 15:41:06 -0000 Received: from fl1-122-135-49-232.tky.mesh.ad.jp ([122.135.49.232]:62791 helo=[192.168.1.4]) by gator465.hostgator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N5LFa-000612-Dp; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:24:50 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1076) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes From: Shida Schubert In-Reply-To: <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B9205823989CE@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:24:48 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <6EC5862C-2C18-499E-B509-3D4508F7E6A4@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B9205823989CE@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> To: "Hutton, Andrew" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1076) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator465.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ntt-at.com Cc: "bliss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BLISS] Agenda for IETF76 X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:24:35 -0000 Andy, Much appreciated it! THANKS! Regards Shida On Nov 3, 2009, at 10:43 PM, Hutton, Andrew wrote: > Hi Shida, > > I will review the call park draft and also try to find time for > another look at the call completion draft. > > Regards > Andy > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bliss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:bliss-bounces@ietf.org] >> On Behalf Of Shida Schubert >> Sent: 03 November 2009 00:50 >> To: bliss@ietf.org >> Subject: [BLISS] Agenda for IETF76 >> >> >> I just uploaded the agenda for IETF 76. >> >> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/agenda/bliss.html >> >> I have only received a request from Alan for him to share any >> issues that may come up during the on-going WGLC on Shared >> Appearance. >> >> So if there are no outstanding issues raised during this >> WGLC, we are going to cancel our session at IETF 76. >> >> BTW Call-park is going under pre-WGLC reviews by selected experts >> right now and we will be doing the same for Call-Completion very >> soon. >> >> We can use few more reviewers for Call-Park and some for >> Call-Completion so if people are willing to put some cycles to review >> these documents prior to WGLC please let Scott and I know. >> >> Regards >> Shida >> _______________________________________________ >> BLISS mailing list >> BLISS@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss >> From shida@ntt-at.com Thu Nov 5 00:07:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 150E628C141 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 00:07:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.604, BAYES_20=-0.74, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0koRNSOdFjwP for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 00:07:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway08.websitewelcome.com (gateway08.websitewelcome.com [67.18.36.18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D3C03A68D0 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 00:07:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 28594 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2009 08:21:42 -0000 Received: from gator465.hostgator.com (69.56.174.130) by gateway08.websitewelcome.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2009 08:21:42 -0000 Received: from fl1-122-135-49-232.tky.mesh.ad.jp ([122.135.49.232]:65069 helo=[192.168.1.4]) by gator465.hostgator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N5xNT-0004LR-D5 for bliss@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:07:31 -0600 From: Shida Schubert Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:07:30 +0900 Message-Id: <72DFC153-30AD-409A-8CC6-C7FDB2735346@ntt-at.com> To: bliss@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1076) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1076) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator465.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ntt-at.com Subject: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:07:11 -0000 All, As we haven't received sufficient agenda request, we will no longer be meeting in Hiroshima for BLISS. Regards Shida From andrew.hutton@siemens-enterprise.com Thu Nov 5 01:05:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3CC3A6774 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 01:05:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M2w+lSfsD2dV for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 01:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [192.35.17.14]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C0628C101 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 01:05:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.siemens.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by david.siemens.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nA595qFJ023910; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:05:52 +0100 Received: from DEMCHP99ET0MSX.ww902.siemens.net (demchp99et0msx.ww902.siemens.net [139.25.131.181]) by mail1.siemens.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nA595qq6021647; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:05:52 +0100 Received: from DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([169.254.2.156]) by DEMCHP99ET0MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.25.131.181]) with mapi; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:05:51 +0100 From: "Hutton, Andrew" To: Shida Schubert , "bliss@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:05:49 +0100 Thread-Topic: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda Thread-Index: Acpd7wludbDCbSq+RtGCBqPIbqnaWQAAkcDg Message-ID: <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C882@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> References: <72DFC153-30AD-409A-8CC6-C7FDB2735346@ntt-at.com> In-Reply-To: <72DFC153-30AD-409A-8CC6-C7FDB2735346@ntt-at.com> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:05:33 -0000 Hi Shida, I think that the BLISS group should meet and we should add to the agenda an= item to discuss the future of the working group. It seems clear that BLISS= has lost focus and the charter is well out of date. Maybe the issue is that given the format of the DISPATCH working group that= BLISS is now irrelevant because in documenting SIP services it is almost a= lways the case that some extension to SIP is needed or maybe the world has = changed and nobody wants the drafts that BLISS is creating anymore. Even if it is only a small number of people that attend I think there shoul= d still a session to discuss the way forward. Regards Andy >-----Original Message----- >From: bliss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:bliss-bounces@ietf.org] >On Behalf Of Shida Schubert >Sent: 05 November 2009 08:08 >To: bliss@ietf.org >Subject: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda > > >All, > > As we haven't received sufficient agenda request, >we will no longer be meeting in Hiroshima for BLISS. > > Regards > Shida >_______________________________________________ >BLISS mailing list >BLISS@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss > From shida@ntt-at.com Thu Nov 5 04:01:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420F03A67E1 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 04:01:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.905 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.905 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.360, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R3NXirdqINlY for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 04:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway08.websitewelcome.com (gateway08.websitewelcome.com [67.18.66.17]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 465C93A672E for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 04:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1478 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2009 12:16:13 -0000 Received: from gator465.hostgator.com (69.56.174.130) by gateway08.websitewelcome.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2009 12:16:13 -0000 Received: from fl1-122-135-49-232.tky.mesh.ad.jp ([122.135.49.232]:65488 helo=[192.168.1.4]) by gator465.hostgator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N612N-0001rZ-Ib; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:02:00 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1076) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes From: Shida Schubert In-Reply-To: <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C882@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:01:58 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <50C6655E-96D4-41D5-9A43-227EE84A23B8@ntt-at.com> References: <72DFC153-30AD-409A-8CC6-C7FDB2735346@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C882@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> To: "Hutton, Andrew" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1076) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator465.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ntt-at.com Cc: "bliss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:01:41 -0000 Andy; Thanks for your feedback, I have been exchanging re-chartering text with AD for the last while (since before IETF75), trying to reflect the structure changes in RAI. Scott has now picked up the pen and has been working on revising the charter which I believe addresses some of the dilemma that BLISS has faced due to its current charter. Anyhow, I sympathize with a lot of what you have stated below, and agree that format of DISPATCH has possibly made BLISS less attractive to bring things in because of the limitation and restriction BLISS currently has (Only able to define limited extensions), but the revised charter if accepted will make the difference and I think will make BLISS home for some of the items that are being discussed in DISPATCH (Session-Recording etc.). Regretfully I have already canceled the agenda time just after I sent out the previous e-mail but I will see if anything can be done about that. Many Thanks Shida On Nov 5, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Hutton, Andrew wrote: > Hi Shida, > > I think that the BLISS group should meet and we should add to the > agenda an item to discuss the future of the working group. It seems > clear that BLISS has lost focus and the charter is well out of date. > > Maybe the issue is that given the format of the DISPATCH working > group that BLISS is now irrelevant because in documenting SIP > services it is almost always the case that some extension to SIP is > needed or maybe the world has changed and nobody wants the drafts > that BLISS is creating anymore. > > Even if it is only a small number of people that attend I think > there should still a session to discuss the way forward. > > Regards > Andy > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bliss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:bliss-bounces@ietf.org] >> On Behalf Of Shida Schubert >> Sent: 05 November 2009 08:08 >> To: bliss@ietf.org >> Subject: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda >> >> >> All, >> >> As we haven't received sufficient agenda request, >> we will no longer be meeting in Hiroshima for BLISS. >> >> Regards >> Shida >> _______________________________________________ >> BLISS mailing list >> BLISS@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss >> From andrew.hutton@siemens-enterprise.com Thu Nov 5 04:07:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F2853A69A3 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 04:07:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KJA5kx7xGmDR for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 04:07:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from goliath.siemens.de (goliath.siemens.de [192.35.17.28]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 397F63A677D for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 04:07:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail3.siemens.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goliath.siemens.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nA5C7NhL011143; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:07:23 +0100 Received: from DEMCHP99ET2MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.25.131.241]) by mail3.siemens.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nA5C7M14008586; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:07:22 +0100 Received: from DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([169.254.2.156]) by DEMCHP99ET2MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.25.131.241]) with mapi; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:07:22 +0100 From: "Hutton, Andrew" To: Shida Schubert Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:07:20 +0100 Thread-Topic: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda Thread-Index: AcpeD8229ZYONsPbTFSBb6p7GXinawAAGFqw Message-ID: <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C964@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> References: <72DFC153-30AD-409A-8CC6-C7FDB2735346@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C882@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <50C6655E-96D4-41D5-9A43-227EE84A23B8@ntt-at.com> In-Reply-To: <50C6655E-96D4-41D5-9A43-227EE84A23B8@ntt-at.com> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "bliss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:07:03 -0000 Hi, Ok so can we see the proposed new charter text or at least some details of = what is proposed and we can arrange an informal meeting of interested parti= es to discuss the way forward in Hiroshima. Regards Andy >-----Original Message----- >From: Shida Schubert [mailto:shida@ntt-at.com] >Sent: 05 November 2009 12:02 >To: Hutton, Andrew >Cc: bliss@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda > > >Andy; > > Thanks for your feedback, I have been exchanging >re-chartering text with AD for the last while (since before >IETF75), trying to reflect the structure changes in RAI. > > Scott has now picked up the pen and has been working on >revising the charter which I believe addresses some of the >dilemma that BLISS has faced due to its current charter. > > Anyhow, I sympathize with a lot of what you have stated >below, and agree that format of DISPATCH has possibly >made BLISS less attractive to bring things in because >of the limitation and restriction BLISS currently has (Only >able to define limited extensions), but the revised charter >if accepted will make the difference and I think will make >BLISS home for some of the items that are being >discussed in DISPATCH (Session-Recording etc.). > > Regretfully I have already canceled the agenda time >just after I sent out the previous e-mail but I will see if >anything can be done about that. > > Many Thanks > Shida > >On Nov 5, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Hutton, Andrew wrote: > >> Hi Shida, >> >> I think that the BLISS group should meet and we should add to the >> agenda an item to discuss the future of the working group. It seems >> clear that BLISS has lost focus and the charter is well out of date. >> >> Maybe the issue is that given the format of the DISPATCH working >> group that BLISS is now irrelevant because in documenting SIP >> services it is almost always the case that some extension to SIP is >> needed or maybe the world has changed and nobody wants the drafts >> that BLISS is creating anymore. >> >> Even if it is only a small number of people that attend I think >> there should still a session to discuss the way forward. >> >> Regards >> Andy >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: bliss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:bliss-bounces@ietf.org] >>> On Behalf Of Shida Schubert >>> Sent: 05 November 2009 08:08 >>> To: bliss@ietf.org >>> Subject: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda >>> >>> >>> All, >>> >>> As we haven't received sufficient agenda request, >>> we will no longer be meeting in Hiroshima for BLISS. >>> >>> Regards >>> Shida >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BLISS mailing list >>> BLISS@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss >>> > > From shida@ntt-at.com Thu Nov 5 04:22:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E8823A68B5 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 04:22:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.288, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qsWSqcEy5pEe for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 04:22:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway13.websitewelcome.com (gateway13.websitewelcome.com [69.56.160.10]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2BD4E3A687D for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 04:22:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 3950 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2009 12:35:36 -0000 Received: from gator465.hostgator.com (69.56.174.130) by gateway13.websitewelcome.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2009 12:35:36 -0000 Received: from fl1-122-135-49-232.tky.mesh.ad.jp ([122.135.49.232]:49208 helo=[192.168.1.4]) by gator465.hostgator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N61Mn-0000JH-JS; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:23:07 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1076) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes From: Shida Schubert In-Reply-To: <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C964@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:23:04 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8483718D-0F02-45F4-9A72-9067153A1C22@ntt-at.com> References: <72DFC153-30AD-409A-8CC6-C7FDB2735346@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C882@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <50C6655E-96D4-41D5-9A43-227EE84A23B8@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C964@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> To: "Hutton, Andrew" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1076) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator465.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ntt-at.com Cc: "bliss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:22:48 -0000 Here is the most recent version that Scott has been working on.. http://svn.resiprocate.org/rep/ietf-drafts/lawrence/bliss-charter/charter.txt BTW target date hasn't been changed in this version yet. Regards Shida On Nov 5, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Hutton, Andrew wrote: > Hi, > > Ok so can we see the proposed new charter text or at least some > details of what is proposed and we can arrange an informal meeting > of interested parties to discuss the way forward in Hiroshima. > > Regards > Andy > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Shida Schubert [mailto:shida@ntt-at.com] >> Sent: 05 November 2009 12:02 >> To: Hutton, Andrew >> Cc: bliss@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda >> >> >> Andy; >> >> Thanks for your feedback, I have been exchanging >> re-chartering text with AD for the last while (since before >> IETF75), trying to reflect the structure changes in RAI. >> >> Scott has now picked up the pen and has been working on >> revising the charter which I believe addresses some of the >> dilemma that BLISS has faced due to its current charter. >> >> Anyhow, I sympathize with a lot of what you have stated >> below, and agree that format of DISPATCH has possibly >> made BLISS less attractive to bring things in because >> of the limitation and restriction BLISS currently has (Only >> able to define limited extensions), but the revised charter >> if accepted will make the difference and I think will make >> BLISS home for some of the items that are being >> discussed in DISPATCH (Session-Recording etc.). >> >> Regretfully I have already canceled the agenda time >> just after I sent out the previous e-mail but I will see if >> anything can be done about that. >> >> Many Thanks >> Shida >> >> On Nov 5, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Hutton, Andrew wrote: >> >>> Hi Shida, >>> >>> I think that the BLISS group should meet and we should add to the >>> agenda an item to discuss the future of the working group. It seems >>> clear that BLISS has lost focus and the charter is well out of date. >>> >>> Maybe the issue is that given the format of the DISPATCH working >>> group that BLISS is now irrelevant because in documenting SIP >>> services it is almost always the case that some extension to SIP is >>> needed or maybe the world has changed and nobody wants the drafts >>> that BLISS is creating anymore. >>> >>> Even if it is only a small number of people that attend I think >>> there should still a session to discuss the way forward. >>> >>> Regards >>> Andy >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: bliss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:bliss-bounces@ietf.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Shida Schubert >>>> Sent: 05 November 2009 08:08 >>>> To: bliss@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda >>>> >>>> >>>> All, >>>> >>>> As we haven't received sufficient agenda request, >>>> we will no longer be meeting in Hiroshima for BLISS. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Shida >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BLISS mailing list >>>> BLISS@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss >>>> >> >> From scott.lawrence@nortel.com Thu Nov 5 07:16:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D83343A6AE5 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 07:16:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G8J643QX4TKz for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 07:16:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from zrtps0kp.nortel.com (zrtps0kp.nortel.com [47.140.192.56]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B10333A6AEA for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 07:16:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from zrtphxs1.corp.nortel.com (zrtphxs1.corp.nortel.com [47.140.202.46]) by zrtps0kp.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id nA5FH5001728; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 15:17:05 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([47.17.25.99]) by zrtphxs1.corp.nortel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:16:35 -0500 From: "Scott Lawrence" To: Shida Schubert In-Reply-To: <8483718D-0F02-45F4-9A72-9067153A1C22@ntt-at.com> References: <72DFC153-30AD-409A-8CC6-C7FDB2735346@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C882@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <50C6655E-96D4-41D5-9A43-227EE84A23B8@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C964@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <8483718D-0F02-45F4-9A72-9067153A1C22@ntt-at.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Nortel Networks Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:16:34 -0500 Message-Id: <1257434194.3665.316.camel@scott> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.24.5 (2.24.5-2.fc10) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2009 15:16:35.0917 (UTC) FILETIME=[F70137D0:01CA5E2A] Cc: "bliss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:16:52 -0000 On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 21:23 +0900, Shida Schubert wrote: > Here is the most recent version that Scott has > been working on.. > > http://svn.resiprocate.org/rep/ietf-drafts/lawrence/bliss-charter/charter.txt As it happens, I was editing it again at about the same time Shida was sending that mail, so if you looked quickly, you may want to look again. That latest diff is at [1]. > BTW target date hasn't been changed in this version yet. In the section on current work, the only changes I've proposed so far are some expansions of some undefined acronyms into what I hope are generic descriptions of the features the acronyms were meant to name. Dates that are now in the past will obviously need to change, but I have not hazarded any guesses on those yet. > On Nov 5, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Hutton, Andrew wrote: > > Ok so can we see the proposed new charter text or at least some > > details of what is proposed and we can arrange an informal meeting > > of interested parties to discuss the way forward in Hiroshima. I will not, alas, be in Hiroshima. I am of course interested in any comments on the proposed text. Note that this has not be reviewed yet by anyone outside Shida and our ADs, so it is not yet in any way official... there's a process for changing the charter text - this announcement is, I guess, part of that - call for community review... From scott.lawrence@nortel.com Thu Nov 5 07:19:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C9B3A6AF4 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 07:19:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.584 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.584 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8txsJphky5Mi for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 07:19:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from zrtps0kp.nortel.com (zrtps0kp.nortel.com [47.140.192.56]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B924A3A6AEA for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 07:19:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from zrtphxs1.corp.nortel.com (casmtp.ca.nortel.com [47.140.202.46]) by zrtps0kp.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id nA5FJp002628; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 15:19:51 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([47.17.25.99]) by zrtphxs1.corp.nortel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:19:21 -0500 From: "Scott Lawrence" To: Shida Schubert In-Reply-To: <1257434194.3665.316.camel@scott> References: <72DFC153-30AD-409A-8CC6-C7FDB2735346@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C882@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <50C6655E-96D4-41D5-9A43-227EE84A23B8@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C964@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <8483718D-0F02-45F4-9A72-9067153A1C22@ntt-at.com> <1257434194.3665.316.camel@scott> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Nortel Networks Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:19:20 -0500 Message-Id: <1257434360.3665.320.camel@scott> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.24.5 (2.24.5-2.fc10) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2009 15:19:21.0765 (UTC) FILETIME=[59DB9D50:01CA5E2B] Cc: "bliss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:19:35 -0000 On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 10:16 -0500, Scott Lawrence wrote: > On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 21:23 +0900, Shida Schubert wrote: > > Here is the most recent version that Scott has > > been working on.. > > > > > http://svn.resiprocate.org/rep/ietf-drafts/lawrence/bliss-charter/charter.txt > > As it happens, I was editing it again at about the same time Shida was > sending that mail, so if you looked quickly, you may want to look > again. > That latest diff is at [1]. Forgot the footnote: [1] http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=http://bit.ly/31shzt&url2=http://svn.resiprocate.org/rep/ietf-drafts/lawrence/bliss-charter/charter.txt From adam@nostrum.com Fri Nov 6 06:40:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F773A68DA for ; Fri, 6 Nov 2009 06:40:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.608 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.608 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=0.992, SPF_PASS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QaFizk16Q4J5 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 2009 06:40:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA8903A67A7 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 2009 06:40:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from host-144-65.meeting.ietf.org (host-144-65.meeting.ietf.org [133.93.144.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nA6EG5xb091117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Nov 2009 08:16:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <4AF378A5.5020205@nostrum.com> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 10:15:17 +0900 From: Adam Roach User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.4pre) Gecko/20090915 Thunderbird/3.0b4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Elwell, John" References: <7402509E63C5A145A6095D46C179A5B71477DE46@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> In-Reply-To: <7402509E63C5A145A6095D46C179A5B71477DE46@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 133.93.144.65 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: "bliss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BLISS] FW: I-D Action:draft-ietf-bliss-ach-analysis-05.txt X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:40:20 -0000 On 10/19/09 9:51 PM, Elwell, John wrote: > The reason for this new version is solely because the old one had expired. It still awaits draft-ietf references to replace the draft-roach and draft-griffin references, before it can be progressed. > For what it's worth, the draft-roach-sip-http-subscribe document may not go through a working group. It is far more likely that it will be published as an AD sponsored document -- which means that it goes directly from draft-roach-... to RFC... On that front, I apologize for not being able to move the document forward the past few months -- a series of fire drills at my "day job," as it were, have kept me more busy than normal. /a From andrew.hutton@siemens-enterprise.com Sat Nov 7 15:31:27 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30893A68E3 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:31:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F-xmcAIih03S for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from thoth.sbs.de (thoth.sbs.de [192.35.17.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B963A679C for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.siemens.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thoth.sbs.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nA7NVnob003456; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 00:31:49 +0100 Received: from DEMCHP99ET0MSX.ww902.siemens.net (demchp99et0msx.ww902.siemens.net [139.25.131.181]) by mail1.siemens.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nA7NVnHN005826; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 00:31:49 +0100 Received: from DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([169.254.2.156]) by DEMCHP99ET0MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.25.131.181]) with mapi; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 00:31:48 +0100 From: "Hutton, Andrew" To: Scott Lawrence , Shida Schubert Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 00:31:36 +0100 Thread-Topic: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda Thread-Index: AcpeK3WDn5xHTHghTzaPyL4PPN234AB1SZnA Message-ID: <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1CDC6@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> References: <72DFC153-30AD-409A-8CC6-C7FDB2735346@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C882@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <50C6655E-96D4-41D5-9A43-227EE84A23B8@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C964@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <8483718D-0F02-45F4-9A72-9067153A1C22@ntt-at.com> <1257434194.3665.316.camel@scott> <1257434360.3665.320.camel@scott> In-Reply-To: <1257434360.3665.320.camel@scott> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "bliss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:31:27 -0000 Hi, I like the proposed new charter I think it makes it very clear what the rul= es are for work items in BLISS. One question I have is should we need evidence of real running code and int= eroperability before releasing BLISS drafts as RFC's. I don't think it would be good if the BLISS group was to analyse existing i= mplementations and then define a new but hopefully more interoperable mecha= nism but then find that nobody implements it. Could we have something in the charter that requires real evidence of inter= operability before a draft can be released as an RFC or would this be going= to far ? Regards Andy >-----Original Message----- >From: bliss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:bliss-bounces@ietf.org] >On Behalf Of Scott Lawrence >Sent: 05 November 2009 15:19 >To: Shida Schubert >Cc: bliss@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda > >On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 10:16 -0500, Scott Lawrence wrote: >> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 21:23 +0900, Shida Schubert wrote: >> > Here is the most recent version that Scott has >> > been working on.. >> > >> > >> >http://svn.resiprocate.org/rep/ietf-drafts/lawrence/bliss-chart >er/charter.txt >> >> As it happens, I was editing it again at about the same time >Shida was >> sending that mail, so if you looked quickly, you may want to look >> again. >> That latest diff is at [1]. > >Forgot the footnote: > >[1] >http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Dhttp://bit.ly/31shzt&url2=3Dht >tp://svn.resiprocate.org/rep/ietf-drafts/lawrence/bliss-charter >/charter.txt > >_______________________________________________ >BLISS mailing list >BLISS@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss > From john.elwell@siemens-enterprise.com Sun Nov 8 14:07:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D113A696E for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 14:07:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.169, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tvelpjWKBGMH for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 14:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from thoth.sbs.de (thoth.sbs.de [192.35.17.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16DFF3A691F for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 14:07:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.siemens.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thoth.sbs.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nA8M7vK1003597; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:07:58 +0100 Received: from DEMCHP99ET2MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.25.131.241]) by mail1.siemens.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nA8M7v6N011444; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:07:57 +0100 Received: from DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([169.254.2.110]) by DEMCHP99ET2MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.25.131.241]) with mapi; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:07:56 +0100 From: "Elwell, John" To: Adam Roach Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:07:55 +0100 Thread-Topic: [BLISS] FW: I-D Action:draft-ietf-bliss-ach-analysis-05.txt Thread-Index: Acpe67BUL8CiF0QsRge4arG7geaBwQB0HlmQ Message-ID: <7402509E63C5A145A6095D46C179A5B70725DA0233@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> References: <7402509E63C5A145A6095D46C179A5B71477DE46@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <4AF378A5.5020205@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <4AF378A5.5020205@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "bliss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BLISS] FW: I-D Action:draft-ietf-bliss-ach-analysis-05.txt X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:07:35 -0000 Adam, Thanks. As far as draft-roach is concerned, that helps, since it seems the = process might be a bit quicker. In fact, if there is already intent to subm= it this via the AD-sponsored route in the near future, I guess this need no= t hold up ach-analysis any longer. John > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Roach [mailto:adam@nostrum.com]=20 > Sent: 06 November 2009 01:15 > To: Elwell, John > Cc: bliss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [BLISS] FW: I-D=20 > Action:draft-ietf-bliss-ach-analysis-05.txt >=20 > On 10/19/09 9:51 PM, Elwell, John wrote: > > The reason for this new version is solely because the old=20 > one had expired. It still awaits draft-ietf references to=20 > replace the draft-roach and draft-griffin references, before=20 > it can be progressed. > > =20 > For what it's worth, the draft-roach-sip-http-subscribe=20 > document may not=20 > go through a working group. It is far more likely that it will be=20 > published as an AD sponsored document -- which means that it goes=20 > directly from draft-roach-... to RFC... >=20 > On that front, I apologize for not being able to move the document=20 > forward the past few months -- a series of fire drills at my=20 > "day job,"=20 > as it were, have kept me more busy than normal. >=20 > /a > = From scott.lawrence@nortel.com Sun Nov 8 14:33:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00F83A69DE for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 14:33:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.585 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.585 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YDvhc5KbHYqH for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 14:33:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from zcars04e.nortel.com (zcars04e.nortel.com [47.129.242.56]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 961C83A6782 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 14:33:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from zrtphxs1.corp.nortel.com (zrtphxs1.corp.nortel.com [47.140.202.46]) by zcars04e.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.0/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id nA8MXT823764; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 22:33:29 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([47.17.25.99]) by zrtphxs1.corp.nortel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 8 Nov 2009 17:33:28 -0500 From: "Scott Lawrence" To: "Hutton, Andrew" In-Reply-To: <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1CDC6@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> References: <72DFC153-30AD-409A-8CC6-C7FDB2735346@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C882@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <50C6655E-96D4-41D5-9A43-227EE84A23B8@ntt-at.com> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1C964@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> <8483718D-0F02-45F4-9A72-9067153A1C22@ntt-at.com> <1257434194.3665.316.camel@scott> <1257434360.3665.320.camel@scott> <78E9EEAA7D0BD94B8A578369FD7B1B920583C1CDC6@DEMCHP99E35MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Nortel Networks Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:33:27 -0500 Message-Id: <1257719607.32566.47.camel@scott> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.24.5 (2.24.5-2.fc10) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Nov 2009 22:33:29.0156 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E8D5040:01CA60C3] Cc: "bliss@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [BLISS] IETF76 agenda X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:33:09 -0000 On Sun, 2009-11-08 at 00:31 +0100, Hutton, Andrew wrote: > Hi, > > I like the proposed new charter I think it makes it very clear what > the rules are for work items in BLISS. > > One question I have is should we need evidence of real running code > and interoperability before releasing BLISS drafts as RFC's. > > I don't think it would be good if the BLISS group was to analyse > existing implementations and then define a new but hopefully more > interoperable mechanism but then find that nobody implements it. > > Could we have something in the charter that requires real evidence of > interoperability before a draft can be released as an RFC or would > this be going to far ? Well, BCP 9 (RFC 2026) already has descriptions of the place of running code in the standards track maturity levels. In the description of Proposed Standard: Usually, neither implementation nor operational experience is required for the designation of a specification as a Proposed Standard. However, such experience is highly desirable, and will usually represent a strong argument in favor of a Proposed Standard designation. and the next level leads with it: A specification from which at least two independent and interoperable implementations from different code bases have been developed, and for which sufficient successful operational experience has been obtained, may be elevated to the "Draft Standard" level. There have been a lot of specifications published as RFCs out of the SIP related working groups without any running code - there are a number that have been RFCs for years that still don't have any running code that I know of, and many more that lack significant deployment. Far be it from me to argue that that is a good thing, but I don't think that the place to change the rules is in the charter of just one working group. Given that interoperability of features is the mission of BLISS, the ability to demonstrate it in real code is especially relevant, but I think it's also worth recognizing that in many (perhaps even most) cases BLISS features will face a difficult hurdle: the features in question are often essential, so most commercial implementations will already have pre-standard (and presumably not interoperable) implementations of the feature. Unless the new standard version has compelling advantages (and being "standard" probably won't be compelling), it may take some time to convince product managers that it is worth spending precious development resources to re-implement a feature they already have. While I argue that requiring running code shouldn't be a criterion in the charter, I do think that it should be a central part of the working group process. I've already had discussions with Robert about setting up testing/demonstration sessions at SIPit for BLISS-developed features. From shida@ntt-at.com Sun Nov 8 22:54:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D9C33A6915 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 22:54:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tRSHA8QMckj9 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 22:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway10.websitewelcome.com (gateway10.websitewelcome.com [69.93.243.28]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7ED283A69A5 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 22:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16296 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2009 07:07:34 -0000 Received: from gator465.hostgator.com (69.56.174.130) by gateway10.websitewelcome.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2009 07:07:34 -0000 Received: from host-18-151.meeting.ietf.org ([133.93.18.151]:51157) by gator465.hostgator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N7O9F-0005wU-7v for bliss@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:54:45 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1076) From: Shida Schubert In-Reply-To: <749E8EB2-597B-4076-9C58-9F8EC8C94F8E@ntt-at.com> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:54:57 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <99CDE03A-6AC1-40A3-B0AA-7B1FEC89025C@ntt-at.com> References: <749E8EB2-597B-4076-9C58-9F8EC8C94F8E@ntt-at.com> To: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1076) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator465.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ntt-at.com Subject: Re: [BLISS] WGLC for draft-ietf-bliss-shared-appearances X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:54:35 -0000 The WGLC for the following draft is concluding very soon and we haven't received any comments so far. Please comment if you have no issue with the draft but you think it's ready to be submitted to IESG. Regards Shida On Oct 27, 2009, at 6:33 PM, Shida Schubert wrote: > > This mail is to initiate a WGLC on > > http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bliss-shared-appearances-04.txt > > Shared Appearances > > Intended Status: Informational > > This is a two week working group last call so please send your > comments > to the list and any nits directly to the editor by the 10th of > November. Alan > is wanting to discuss any comments that comes up during WGLC at > IETF76. > > Regards > Shida Schubert (As WG chair) > _______________________________________________ > BLISS mailing list > BLISS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss From alan@sipstation.com Sun Nov 8 23:38:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0D328C1BB for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:38:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_66=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wLyvGn0X0mzY for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:38:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org (mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org [204.13.248.71]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB5D728C129 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:38:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from host-18-249.meeting.ietf.org ([133.93.18.249]) by mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1N7Opm-000ApJ-4M for bliss@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:38:42 +0000 X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 133.93.18.249 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.com (see http://www.dyndns.com/services/mailhop/outbound_abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: U2FsdGVkX1+m2xEEA7iPrTW3hgm3Z8cWumnQzelrK50= Message-ID: <4AF7C6F3.1070400@sipstation.com> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:38:27 -0600 From: Alan Johnston User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BLISS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [BLISS] Shared Appearance use of Event header parameter X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:38:17 -0000 Here's an issue Robert has raised that we should have some discussion on before sending this on the IESG. The Shared Appearance draft defines a "shared" event parameter. The question is whether this should instead be a SIP feature tag used in a Supported and Require header fields. I've pulled out some text from the draft, RFC 3265, and a summary of how it is used. What do people think? Thanks, Alan - - - - - From draft-bliss-shared-appearance: Section 12.1 This specification defines a new event parameter 'shared' for the Dialog Package. When used in a NOTIFY, it indicates that the notifier supports the shared appearance feature. When used in a PUBLISH, it indicates that the publisher has explicit appearance information contained in the message body. If not present in a PUBLISH, the Appearance Agent MAY assign an appearance number to any new dialogs in the message body. From RFC 3265: 4.4.2. Event Package Parameters If parameters are to be used on the "Event" header to modify the behavior of the event package, the syntax and semantics of such headers MUST be clearly defined. Details on the usage: - Appearance Agent discovery of non-Shared Appearance UA during subscriptions. A NOTIFY sent without elements does not necessarily mean the UA does not understand or support the extension, but a NOTIFY sent without the Event:dialog;shared does indicate this. - Sent by a UA and interpreted by an Appearance Agent to request no appearance number be assigned to a dialog (PUBLISH sent without attribute but containing Event: dialog;shared From rj2807@gmail.com Thu Nov 19 12:38:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 755183A6A26 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:38:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_66=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i8yngIrSQMFE for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:38:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-fx0-f215.google.com (mail-fx0-f215.google.com [209.85.220.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724AA3A6A1A for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:38:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by fxm7 with SMTP id 7so2915073fxm.29 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:38:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=47F8ufXSYTkbMiM2j2a7Kn13v+l2zieIZeZag6b2hA0=; b=ZNpZtx9DrG0+F5wNPhFUfMNV1kKE6AM0ypW+PjCv/AcvYcGXPC4VYZbD2hCvJ6adsS +KWyI7HCAB5Cy8jB4JZacGwjnlQ8HP6Xm2SWg+jZGDoggJ7kzi5eJtsNOum+1EuZ/6T6 E9dHfOLBwHYqOJYu6zpfwRYNcWM5gMcT4my5w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=gn1jnH795cxSn2RFGQTFESqRZx+kZpu78PA3buFbPUtxUQhEccJAr+UIhp6Ql6O8zQ i6wcz5yJu2CacbUQ2wX9pOqKACedConlJ5FUXJPovMOUv5tupcwDf8XAvQDkY32kVLgF 4j/gC4rZQM/QGJczYKMWfmBquVeUejVqTq6kw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.86.142 with SMTP id w14mr145977wee.74.1258663074219; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:37:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4AF7C6F3.1070400@sipstation.com> References: <4AF7C6F3.1070400@sipstation.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:37:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1971b0b60911191237y59d153abq4e91d667b6873af7@mail.gmail.com> From: Raj Jain To: Alan Johnston Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: BLISS Subject: Re: [BLISS] Shared Appearance use of Event header parameter X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:38:09 -0000 Hi Alan, I think the Shared Appearances extensions of RFC 4235 do not really match the semantics of SIP Supported:/Require: headers. I'd prefer the way it is defined right now (Event: dialog;shared). The draft formally extends the XML schema of RFC 4235 with a few attributes. These are extensions to an event package, which is what (Event: dialog;shared) communicates. Your definition of the usage of the event package parameter sounds fine to = me. Thanks, Raj On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:38 AM, Alan Johnston wrote: > Here's an issue Robert has raised that we should have some discussion on > before sending this on the IESG. > > The Shared Appearance draft defines a "shared" event parameter. > > The question is whether this should instead be a SIP feature tag used in = a > Supported and Require header fields. > > I've pulled out some text from the draft, RFC 3265, and a summary of how = it > is used. > > What do people think? > > Thanks, > Alan > > - - - - - > > From draft-bliss-shared-appearance: > > Section 12.1 > > =A0This specification defines a new event parameter 'shared' for the > =A0Dialog Package. =A0When used in a NOTIFY, it indicates that the > =A0notifier supports the shared appearance feature. =A0When used in a > =A0PUBLISH, it indicates that the publisher has explicit appearance > =A0information contained in the message body. =A0If not present in a > =A0PUBLISH, the Appearance Agent MAY assign an appearance number to any > =A0new dialogs in the message body. > > From RFC 3265: > > 4.4.2. Event Package Parameters > > =A0If parameters are to be used on the "Event" header to modify the > =A0behavior of the event package, the syntax and semantics of such > =A0headers MUST be clearly defined. > > Details on the usage: > > - Appearance Agent discovery of non-Shared Appearance UA during > subscriptions. =A0A NOTIFY sent without elements does not > necessarily mean the UA does not understand or support the extension, but= a > NOTIFY sent without the Event:dialog;shared does =A0indicate this. > > - Sent by a UA and interpreted by an Appearance Agent to request no > appearance number be assigned to a dialog (PUBLISH sent without > attribute but containing Event: dialog;shared > > > _______________________________________________ > BLISS mailing list > BLISS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss > From shida@ntt-at.com Thu Nov 19 16:09:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67C0F3A6880 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:09:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.665 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.665 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_66=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f2AcKqfxyzu6 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:09:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway08.websitewelcome.com (gateway08.websitewelcome.com [67.18.53.17]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8E75A3A685D for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:09:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 28375 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2009 00:24:43 -0000 Received: from gator465.hostgator.com (69.56.174.130) by gateway08.websitewelcome.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2009 00:24:43 -0000 Received: from fl1-118-109-66-179.tky.mesh.ad.jp ([118.109.66.179]:59480 helo=[192.168.1.5]) by gator465.hostgator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NBH4B-0004C3-6S; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:09:35 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Shida Schubert In-Reply-To: <4AF7C6F3.1070400@sipstation.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:09:38 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4AF7C6F3.1070400@sipstation.com> To: Alan Johnston X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator465.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ntt-at.com Cc: BLISS Subject: Re: [BLISS] Shared Appearance use of Event header parameter X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:09:44 -0000 I think option tag is necessary if UA that does not understand=20 this specification barfs or breaks by receiving the parameter=20 mentioned.=20 Regards Shida as an individual. On Nov 9, 2009, at 4:38 PM, Alan Johnston wrote: > Here's an issue Robert has raised that we should have some discussion = on before sending this on the IESG. >=20 > The Shared Appearance draft defines a "shared" event parameter. >=20 > The question is whether this should instead be a SIP feature tag used = in a Supported and Require header fields. >=20 > I've pulled out some text from the draft, RFC 3265, and a summary of = how it is used. >=20 > What do people think? >=20 > Thanks, > Alan >=20 > - - - - - >=20 > =46rom draft-bliss-shared-appearance: >=20 > Section 12.1 >=20 > This specification defines a new event parameter 'shared' for the > Dialog Package. When used in a NOTIFY, it indicates that the > notifier supports the shared appearance feature. When used in a > PUBLISH, it indicates that the publisher has explicit appearance > information contained in the message body. If not present in a > PUBLISH, the Appearance Agent MAY assign an appearance number to any > new dialogs in the message body. >=20 > =46rom RFC 3265: >=20 > 4.4.2. Event Package Parameters >=20 > If parameters are to be used on the "Event" header to modify the > behavior of the event package, the syntax and semantics of such > headers MUST be clearly defined. >=20 > Details on the usage: >=20 > - Appearance Agent discovery of non-Shared Appearance UA during = subscriptions. A NOTIFY sent without elements does not = necessarily mean the UA does not understand or support the extension, = but a NOTIFY sent without the Event:dialog;shared does indicate this. >=20 > - Sent by a UA and interpreted by an Appearance Agent to request no = appearance number be assigned to a dialog (PUBLISH sent without = attribute but containing Event: dialog;shared >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > BLISS mailing list > BLISS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss From rj2807@gmail.com Thu Nov 19 18:04:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA133A6A43 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:04:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_66=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PyVaWDp-wDaB for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:04:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.152]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB333A6A3D for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:04:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id d23so1213774fga.13 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:04:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=YvRArnoW31pjn5kbwSC1qoPYXhx578nHFAlVqMeuOpU=; b=hEKTYzDCZgxFEJlDQblhL0Wohte8fISPQckHe2XuUud6nuzvu9/cr7Cx14iz/iKTKi saV1f1G93IjuXI319AFlT+LiQjrkyU/ZQN8gi16GbDAku9uxFDnmmFj2lkkhaTx59tTM TaGt1uKkzt1Z7LNhkFrk8L7Sccfqqq0L8dWZA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=NtyVSoAlMtfAFUvukrFToKi+f8f8sHBW/K71GnMgOJzqqPOuOzM5+iww11O7nzr4jO 9uYMHpHUEKOrdNSeB17BsENBuJcWKcvK+oY3eHHfeWenbl61jreXAEEg09A8qQW1eXcN BtbXJMpEZyW8VqHb7/iBtWhIhRc0lxgSf+a+c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.90.13 with SMTP id d13mr233046wef.130.1258682647962; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:04:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4AF7C6F3.1070400@sipstation.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:04:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1971b0b60911191804m7c88617fk448c982532d033f3@mail.gmail.com> From: Raj Jain To: Shida Schubert Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: BLISS Subject: Re: [BLISS] Shared Appearance use of Event header parameter X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:04:12 -0000 Hi Shida, I think the semantics in your question are about SIP protocol level negotiation vs. event package level negotiation. The SA draft is extending RFC 4235 for the shared appearences feature. I see it as more of an event package extension as opposed to a SIP option tag extension. Just my 2 cents, Raj On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Shida Schubert wrote: > > =A0I think option tag is necessary if UA that does not understand > this specification barfs or breaks by receiving the parameter > mentioned. > > =A0Regards > =A0Shida as an individual. > > On Nov 9, 2009, at 4:38 PM, Alan Johnston wrote: > >> Here's an issue Robert has raised that we should have some discussion on= before sending this on the IESG. >> >> The Shared Appearance draft defines a "shared" event parameter. >> >> The question is whether this should instead be a SIP feature tag used in= a Supported and Require header fields. >> >> I've pulled out some text from the draft, RFC 3265, and a summary of how= it is used. >> >> What do people think? >> >> Thanks, >> Alan >> >> - - - - - >> >> From draft-bliss-shared-appearance: >> >> Section 12.1 >> >> =A0This specification defines a new event parameter 'shared' for the >> =A0Dialog Package. =A0When used in a NOTIFY, it indicates that the >> =A0notifier supports the shared appearance feature. =A0When used in a >> =A0PUBLISH, it indicates that the publisher has explicit appearance >> =A0information contained in the message body. =A0If not present in a >> =A0PUBLISH, the Appearance Agent MAY assign an appearance number to any >> =A0new dialogs in the message body. >> >> From RFC 3265: >> >> 4.4.2. Event Package Parameters >> >> =A0If parameters are to be used on the "Event" header to modify the >> =A0behavior of the event package, the syntax and semantics of such >> =A0headers MUST be clearly defined. >> >> Details on the usage: >> >> - Appearance Agent discovery of non-Shared Appearance UA during subscrip= tions. =A0A NOTIFY sent without elements does not necessarily = mean the UA does not understand or support the extension, but a NOTIFY sent= without the Event:dialog;shared does =A0indicate this. >> >> - Sent by a UA and interpreted by an Appearance Agent to request no appe= arance number be assigned to a dialog (PUBLISH sent without at= tribute but containing Event: dialog;shared >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BLISS mailing list >> BLISS@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss > > _______________________________________________ > BLISS mailing list > BLISS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss > From adam@nostrum.com Wed Nov 25 13:22:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: bliss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F8B3A6955 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:22:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S89kJkIpvHhJ for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:22:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4BCD3A69C4 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:22:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.3.231] (vicuna-alt.estacado.net [75.53.54.121]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nAPLMJju018774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:22:19 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <4B0DA00B.1040509@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:22:19 -0600 From: Adam Roach User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091121 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BLISS WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090809020001020605050604" Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 75.53.54.121 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Subject: [BLISS] Last Call: draft-roach-sip-http-subscribe-03 X-BeenThere: bliss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services \(BLISS\) BoF" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:22:28 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090809020001020605050604 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A new version of the SIP HTTP Subscribe draft is now available. I consider this version to be functionally complete, and plan to hand it off to the APPS ADs for evaluation and publication in the next two to three weeks (we plan to publish this document as an individual submission, not a working-group document). If you have any interest in this subject matter, please review the document and comment on the "SIP HTTP Events" mailing list. To ensure that your comments can be incorporated, ensure that you do so before Friday, December 11th. The new version of the document is available here: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-roach-sip-http-subscribe-03.txt Information about the "SIP HTTP Events" mailing list is available here: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip-http-events /a -------- Original Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-roach-sip-http-subscribe-03 Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:08:08 -0800 (PST) From: IETF I-D Submission Tool To: adam@nostrum.com A new version of I-D, draft-roach-sip-http-subscribe-03.txt has been successfuly submitted by Adam Roach and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-roach-sip-http-subscribe Revision: 03 Title: A SIP Event Package for Subscribing to Changes to an HTTP Resource Creation_date: 2009-11-25 WG ID: Independent Submission Number_of_pages: 18 Abstract: The Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) is increasingly being used in systems that are tightly coupled with Hypertext Transport Protocol (HTTP) servers for a variety of reasons. In many of these cases, applications can benefit from being able to discover, in near-real- time, when a specific HTTP resource is created, changed, or deleted. This document proposes a mechanism, based on the SIP events framework, for doing so. This document further proposes that the HTTP work necessary to make such a mechanism work be extensible to support protocols other than SIP for monitoring HTTP resources. The IETF Secretariat. --------------090809020001020605050604 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
A new version of the SIP HTTP Subscribe draft is now available. I consider this version to be functionally complete, and plan to hand it off to the APPS ADs for evaluation and publication in the next two to three weeks (we plan to publish this document as an individual submission, not a working-group document). If you have any interest in this subject matter, please review the document and comment on the "SIP HTTP Events" mailing list. To ensure that your comments can be incorporated, ensure that you do so before Friday, December 11th.

The new version of the document is available here:
  http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-roach-sip-http-subscribe-03.txt

Information about the "SIP HTTP Events" mailing list is available here:
  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip-http-events

/a

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-roach-sip-http-subscribe-03
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:08:08 -0800 (PST)
From: IETF I-D Submission Tool <idsubmission@ietf.org>
To: adam@nostrum.com 


A new version of I-D, draft-roach-sip-http-subscribe-03.txt has been successfuly submitted by Adam Roach and posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:	 draft-roach-sip-http-subscribe
Revision:	 03
Title:		 A SIP Event Package for Subscribing to Changes to an HTTP Resource
Creation_date:	 2009-11-25
WG ID:		 Independent Submission
Number_of_pages: 18

Abstract:
The Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) is increasingly being used in
systems that are tightly coupled with Hypertext Transport Protocol
(HTTP) servers for a variety of reasons.  In many of these cases,
applications can benefit from being able to discover, in near-real-
time, when a specific HTTP resource is created, changed, or deleted.
This document proposes a mechanism, based on the SIP events
framework, for doing so.

This document further proposes that the HTTP work necessary to make
such a mechanism work be extensible to support protocols other than
SIP for monitoring HTTP resources.
                                                                                  


The IETF Secretariat.
--------------090809020001020605050604--