Subject: [Ietf-caldav] Plone + CalDAV: first collaborative draft of the Plone Improvement Proposal (PLIP) is now online
From: Graham Perrin <[email-masked]>
To: CalDAV DevList <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 07:43:44 +0000
List-Id: Discussions on Calendar Access protocol based on WebDAV <ietf-caldav.osafoundation.org>

Discussion has begun in two or more of the forums to which I have  
posted. For the benefit of all concerned I wish to avoid cross- 
posting, so if you have any interest in this subject, please visit  
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dcxc3g7d_5c93vqk

Thanks and regards
Graham Perrin

From: Graham Perrin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:27:52 +0000
To: CalDAV DevList <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Ietf-caldav] Plone + CalDAV: periodic versus live/cached

On 27 Nov 2007, at 19:32, Jeffrey Harris wrote:

>> 2)  ... I'd like Plone to simply present, for an ATEvent object,  
>> event-related information that is drawn from a CalDAV server.
>
> Do you want to draw events live from a CalDAV server, blocking page  
> rendering while you wait for a response from the CalDAV server?  Or  
> were you thinking you'd schedule a periodic task to update Plone?

A good question.

Periodic tasks may be a fine approach to (2) above or (3) below ...

>> 3) Even better: beyond simple presentation, I'd like Plone to have  
>> the ability to update its ATEevent object, based upon what's fed  
>> by the CalDAV server.
>>
>> 4) Best: I'd like changes fed by a human to an ATEvent object to  
>> be relayed appropriately to a CalDAV server, but that's probably  
>> over-ambitious at this time.

... but expanding my thoughts to the future possibility of (4), my  
_instinct_ is that periodic tasks may introduce complications in  
unexpected ways.

Better, I suspect, to allow direct communication between Plone and  
the CalDAV server.

> blocking page rendering while you wait for a response from the  
> CalDAV server?

I guess, Plone can be configured to fall back to cached data when a  
CalDAV server does not provide a timely response.

So ... thoughts forming, _maybe_:

  * Plone should have the option of storing within the ZODB (Zope  
Object Database) a CalDAV URL-oriented object

and

  * that object should include a cached copy of data from the CalDAV  
server

and

  * an ATEvent object may be related to that CalDAV URL-oriented object.

and

  * communication between Plone and CalDAV server to be triggered by  
events, Python/Zope/Plone/workflow experts (not me) will surely have  
a grasp on that side of things.

Regards

Graham

To: [email-masked]
From: Graham Perrin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:27:29 +0000
Subject: [Ietf-caldav] Chandler Hub (Cosmo), Atom, Plone, Mulberry

On 27 Nov 2007, at 19:32, Jeffrey Harris wrote:

> Chandler Hub, http://hub.chandlerproject.org/ is available for  
> public use.

 From my first experiments with Chandler Hub I see that Atom feeds  
are available -- smart.

Atom etc. supported by the standard portlets engine in Plone 3
<http://plone.org/products/plone/features/3.0/new/portlets-engine>
and the new FeedMixer <http://www.jarn.com/blog/feedmixer>, all  
looking good.

> If it doesn't work with Mulberry, I'd love to know that!

Re Chandler Hub and Mulberry I have replied off-list to Jeffrey.

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:32:50 -0800
From: Jeffrey Harris <[email-masked]>
To: CalDAV DevList <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Ietf-caldav] More on the Plone + CalDAV question

Hi Graham,

> 2) As an improvement -- and this is where CalDAV expertise will be
> *most* appreciated: I'd like Plone to simply present, for an ATEvent
> object, event-related information that is drawn from a CalDAV server.

Do you want to draw events live from a CalDAV server, blocking page
rendering while you wait for a response from the CalDAV server?  Or were
you thinking you'd schedule a periodic task to update Plone?

> Incidentally: are there publicly or privately available any CalDAV
> servers with which I might register myself, familiarise myself?

Chandler Hub, http://hub.chandlerproject.org/ is available for public
use.  If it doesn't work with Mulberry, I'd love to know that!

Sincerely,
Jeffrey

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:44:49 -0500
From: Mike Douglass <[email-masked]>
To: Graham Perrin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Ietf-caldav] More on the Plone + CalDAV question
Cc: [email-masked]

I can send you the url an id and a password to a running test version of
bedework.

I'm actually in the middle of upgrading it so I'll send you something
when it's ready

Graham Perrin wrote:
> Hi Cyrus, thanks for your attention.
>
> On 27 Nov 2007, at 15:33, Cyrus Daboo wrote:
>
>> Can you explain the architecture in a little more detail? I get the
>> impression that what you are doing is having Plone sit on top of a
>> CalDAV server that provides the back-end event store, and Plone is
>> provided its own front-end for that. Is that a reasonable description
>> of what you are doing?
>
> I think you have the gist :-)
>
> I guess that some list members will be familiar with Zope.
> <http://plone.org/documentation/faq/what-is-cmf/?searchterm=Plone>
> describes Plone content management system in a Zope context.
>
> ATEvent objects are typically presented by Plone in this way:
> <http://plone.org/events/regional/plone-symposium-2008/plone-symposium-2008/>
>
>
> As I expect our Centre to use Apple iCal Server (we're not quite there
> yet),
> so I expect that most events will be managed primarily in that context.
>
> Inevitably, our users will _also_ wish for events to presented by Plone.
>
>
> 1) At least: I wish to suppress (in Plone) the presentation of .vcs
> and .ics download options -- but that's off-topic from IETF-CalDAV
> (probably easily achievable when I find more time to dig into Plone).
>
>
> 2) As an improvement -- and this is where CalDAV expertise will be
> *most* appreciated: I'd like Plone to simply present, for an ATEvent
> object, event-related information that is drawn from a CalDAV server.
>
>
> 3) Even better: beyond simple presentation, I'd like Plone to have the
> ability to update its ATEevent object, based upon what's fed by the
> CalDAV server.
>
>
> 4) Best: I'd like changes fed by a human to an ATEvent object to be
> relayed appropriately to a CalDAV server, but that's probably
> over-ambitious at this time.
>
>
> ----
>
> Incidentally: are there publicly or privately available any CalDAV
> servers with which I might register myself, familiarise myself?
>
> (Whilst I have the code for Darwin Calendar Server, I lack the time to
> configure etc.. Mac OS X Server 10.5 is on my shopping list so I'll
> take advantage of that when it arrives.)
>
> Initially using Mulberry 4.0.8 as a client.
>
> Best regards
>
> Graham Perrin
> CENTRIM - the Centre for Research in Innovation Management
> University of Brighton
> +44-1273-877922
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf-caldav mailing list -- [email-masked]
> See http://ietf.webdav.org/caldav/ for more CalDAV resources
> http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-caldav
>

-- 

Mike Douglass                           [email-masked]
Senior Systems Programmer
Communication & Collaboration Technologies      518 276 6780(voice) 2809
(fax)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 110 8th Street, Troy, NY 12180

From: Graham Perrin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:53:11 +0000
To: Cyrus Daboo <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [Ietf-caldav] More on the Plone + CalDAV question

Hi Cyrus, thanks for your attention.

On 27 Nov 2007, at 15:33, Cyrus Daboo wrote:

> Can you explain the architecture in a little more detail? I get the  
> impression that what you are doing is having Plone sit on top of a  
> CalDAV server that provides the back-end event store, and Plone is  
> provided its own front-end for that. Is that a reasonable  
> description of what you are doing?

I think you have the gist :-)

I guess that some list members will be familiar with Zope.
<http://plone.org/documentation/faq/what-is-cmf/?searchterm=Plone>  
describes Plone content management system in a Zope context.

ATEvent objects are typically presented by Plone in this way:
<http://plone.org/events/regional/plone-symposium-2008/plone- 
symposium-2008/>

As I expect our Centre to use Apple iCal Server (we're not quite  
there yet),
so I expect that most events will be managed primarily in that context.

Inevitably, our users will _also_ wish for events to presented by Plone.

1) At least: I wish to suppress (in Plone) the presentation of .vcs  
and .ics download options -- but that's off-topic from IETF-CalDAV  
(probably easily achievable when I find more time to dig into Plone).

2) As an improvement -- and this is where CalDAV expertise will be  
*most* appreciated: I'd like Plone to simply present, for an ATEvent  
object, event-related information that is drawn from a CalDAV server.

3) Even better: beyond simple presentation, I'd like Plone to have  
the ability to update its ATEevent object, based upon what's fed by  
the CalDAV server.

4) Best: I'd like changes fed by a human to an ATEvent object to be  
relayed appropriately to a CalDAV server, but that's probably over- 
ambitious at this time.

----

Incidentally: are there publicly or privately available any CalDAV  
servers with which I might register myself, familiarise myself?

(Whilst I have the code for Darwin Calendar Server, I lack the time  
to configure etc.. Mac OS X Server 10.5 is on my shopping list so  
I'll take advantage of that when it arrives.)

Initially using Mulberry 4.0.8 as a client.

Best regards

Graham Perrin
CENTRIM - the Centre for Research in Innovation Management
University of Brighton
+44-1273-877922

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:33:00 -0500
From: Cyrus Daboo <[email-masked]>
To: Graham Perrin <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Ietf-caldav] Fwd: Plone Improvement Proposal (PLIP) re event	handling and CalDAV: invitation

Hi Graham,

--On November 27, 2007 10:36:51 AM +0000 Graham Perrin 
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>> For further information please visit
>> <http://omnium.freeman-centre.ac.uk/~gjp22/2007/11/24/plip-
>> caldav.html>
>
> Advice from anyone with CalDAV experience will be greatly appreciated.
>
> A relevant improvement to Zope/Plone may be very simple.
>
> My early thoughts appeared at
> <http://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/7336>
> (marked invalid there, only because their Trac was not an agreeable forum
> for enhancements).

Can you explain the architecture in a little more detail? I get the 
impression that what you are doing is having Plone sit on top of a CalDAV 
server that provides the back-end event store, and Plone is provided its 
own front-end for that. Is that a reasonable description of what you are 
doing?

-- 
Cyrus Daboo

From: Graham Perrin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:36:51 +0000
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Ietf-caldav] Fwd: Plone Improvement Proposal (PLIP) re event handling and CalDAV: invitation

Begin forwarded message:

> Resent-From: Graham Perrin <[email-masked]>
> From: Graham Perrin <[email-masked]>
> Date: 24 November 2007 20:30:30 GMT
> Resent-To: [email-masked]
> To: [email-masked], calendarserver- 
> [email-masked], [email-masked],  
> [email-masked]
> Subject: Plone Improvement Proposal (PLIP) re event handling and  
> CalDAV: invitation
>
> With apologies for cross-posting:
>
> I have been invited to draft a Plone Improvement Proposal regarding:
>
> * Plone CMS handling of event objects
>
> * CalDAV.
>
> For further information please visit
> <http://omnium.freeman-centre.ac.uk/~gjp22/2007/11/24/plip- 
> caldav.html>

Advice from anyone with CalDAV experience will be greatly appreciated.

A relevant improvement to Zope/Plone may be very simple.

My early thoughts appeared at
<http://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/7336>
(marked invalid there, only because their Trac was not an agreeable  
forum for enhancements).

TIA

Graham Perrin

(I'll have a greater idea of what's possible after I start running  
Apple iCal Server...)

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 06:36:15 -0500
From: Bernard Desruisseaux <[email-masked]>
To: CalDAV DevList <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Ietf-caldav] [Fwd: I-D Action:draft-desruisseaux-caldav-sched-04.txt]

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FYI

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: I-D Action:draft-desruisseaux-caldav-sched-04.txt
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 20:20:01 -0500
From: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.

	Title           : CalDAV Scheduling Extensions to WebDAV
	Author(s)       : C. Daboo, et al.
	Filename        : draft-desruisseaux-caldav-sched-04.txt
	Pages           : 51
	Date            : 2007-11-18

This document defines extensions to the Web Distributed Authoring and
Versioning (WebDAV) protocol to specify a standard way of exchanging
and processing scheduling messages based on the iCalendar Transport-
Independent Interoperability Protocol (iTIP).  This document defines
the "calendar-schedule" feature of CalDAV.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-desruisseaux-caldav-sched-04.txt

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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:58:35 -0500
From: Cyrus Daboo <[email-masked]>
To: Gren Elliot <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Ietf-caldav] caldav-sched - expired draft?

Hi Gren,

--On November 13, 2007 3:40:14 PM +0000 Gren Elliot 
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> I've recently been trying to find documentation on the caldav-sched
> extensions to CalDAV.
> The latest one of these I found claims it recently expired - see :
>     http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-desruisseaux-caldav-sched-04
>
> Could someone update me on the status of this proposed standard please?

Sorry about that. We are working on getting an update out before the draft 
deadline next week.

-- 
Cyrus Daboo

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:40:14 +0000
From: Gren Elliot <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Ietf-caldav] caldav-sched - expired draft?

Hi,

I've recently been trying to find documentation on the caldav-sched 
extensions to CalDAV.
The latest one of these I found claims it recently expired - see :
    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-desruisseaux-caldav-sched-04

Could someone update me on the status of this proposed standard please?

Thanks,
Gren.