Subject: [Cellar] Draft Minutes from today's virtual interim call

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 14:58:17 -0600

Dear All,

Here's what we recorded from today's call.

Best,

Spencer

CELLAR – DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
DateTimeLocal Times
2021-11-23 21:00 Amsterdam Time Converter
<https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm>
Note Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Administrivia>Administrivia
<https://notes.ietf.org/#INFO>INFO:

https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-10
Note that we’re now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here
<https://notes.ietf.org/#WEB-CONFERENCE>WEB CONFERENCE:

https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com link
at any time.)

Try out the meetecho link:
https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=ec140dba-9bf7-4173-80cf-bf1d86100095
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Shared-COMIMD-for-notetaking-httpscodimdietforgnotes-cellar-virtual>Shared
COMIMD for notetaking: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual

   - Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you’ll be able to
   edit these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
   - Please ask Spencer if you have questions.

The ComiMD URL is still redirecting, but the newly official location is
https://notes.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual?edit - and that’s active now.
Please bookmark the new one when you’re redirected to it.
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Logistics-for-Meeting>Logistics for Meeting
<https://notes.ietf.org/#2021-virtual-interim-meeting-dates>2021 virtual
interim meeting dates

   - Please note our 2022 dates listed at
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Agenda-Items>Agenda Items
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Note-Well-httpswwwietforgaboutnote-well>Note Well:
https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/ <https://notes.ietf.org/#Roll-call>Roll
call

Attendees

   - Spencer Dawkins
   - Michael Richardson
   - Martijn van Beurden
   - Steve Lhomme
   - Jérôme Martinez
   - Michael Niedermayer
   - Dave Rice

Regrets
*
<https://notes.ietf.org/#News-You-Can-Use>News You Can Use

   - NOTE that https://mediaarea.net/NoTimeToWait5 is December 8-10, with
   in-person and virtual registration - a lot of us are attending
   ** workshop on improving Matroska, and how to improve FFV1.
   ** the workshops are on December 8, meeting 9/10.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Final-dates-for-2022-Cellar-meetings-have-been-approved-by-our-AD-and-added-to-the-datatracker>Final
dates for 2022 Cellar meetings have been approved by our AD and added to
the datatracker

   - 2022-01-25
   - 2022-02-22
   - 2022-03-29
   - 2022-04-26
   - 2022-05-24
   - 2022-06-28
   - 2022-08-23
   - 2022-09-27
   - 2022-10-25
   - 2022-12-06

<https://notes.ietf.org/#WG-status-update>WG status update

   - draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-00 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-codec-07 was posted 2021-10-19, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-control-00 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-17 was posted 2021-05-25, in ID Exists Expires
   Soon -18 will be a keep-alive submission
   - draft-ietf-cellar-flac-02 was posted 2021-11-01, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-08 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-tags-07 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Milestone-review>Milestone review:

   - Previous status: Jerome is now able to focus on FFV1-v4, since we’ve
   published FFV1. ACTION Spencer to send e-mail to DISPATCH when we submit
   a (small) update. We should wait until we have a bit more text, or bigger
   issues, to publish as a draft.
   - Are we ready to submit a working group draft for EBML updates (errata
   plus additions) yet? (
   https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/corrections-doc)
   - we can still wait for more feedback/bigger changes before submitting
   anything - ETA is “after we get Matroska out, so we know everything
   Matroska needs will be covered”

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Discussion-on-the-call>Discussion on the call

   - ACTION: For Matroska, Spencer and Michael will review the IANA
   considerations, especially for deprecated assignments/non-assignments, and
   ask for ART area review
   - move the security considerations before IANA section

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Accept-draft-minutes-from-previous-meeting-attached-below>Accept
draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

   - Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list.
   - No objections on the mailing list or on the call.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Making-sure-we-have-copyright-issues-straightened-out-for-the-FLAC-specification>Making
sure we have copyright issues straightened out for the FLAC specification

   - Update from Michael on discussions with Josh Coalson and IETF Trust
   - Continue with the current document, or start a new one?

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Discussion-on-the-call1>Discussion on the call

   - Martijn has a PR for new text, but we can use text from the previous
   document now that Josh has agreed that we have permission
   - ACTION: Spencer and Michael: get list of authors correct.
   - Martijn to add himself as an author and delete Michael Richardson
   - We will continue to engage with Josh on whether he would like to be
   listed as an author or added as a contributor
   - We should add the Xiph documentation as a informative reference

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Matroska-issues---Discussion-on-the-call>Matroska
issues - Discussion on the call

   - (above IANA Considerations review)
   - We do have PRs we can merge now
   - ACTION: please review pull requests: 115, 555

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FLAC-issues---Discussion-on-the-call>FLAC issues -
Discussion on the call

   - Discussed under copyright topic above

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FFV1-v4-issues---Discussion-on-the-call>FFV1 v4
issues - Discussion on the call

   - No discussion on the call
   - ACTION: -18 keepalive version will get reposted by Dave Rice

<https://notes.ietf.org/#AOB>AOB?

   - NoTimeToWait5 is sending updates to attendees that includes current
   information about potential CoViD-19 lockdowns and restrictions for
   vaccinated-only attendees, etc.

NEXT MEETING 2022-01-25 
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Notes-from-previous-meeting-for-approval>Notes
from previous meeting for approval
<https://notes.ietf.org/#CELLAR-%E2%80%93-DRAFT-AGENDA-for-Virtual-Interim-Meeting1>CELLAR
– DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
DateTimeLocal Times
2021-10-26 21:00 Amsterdam Time Converter
<https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm>
Note Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Administrivia1>Administrivia
<https://notes.ietf.org/#INFO1>INFO:

https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-09
Note that we’re now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here
<https://notes.ietf.org/#WEB-CONFERENCE1>WEB CONFERENCE:

https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com link
at any time.)

We are still on whereby.com for this meeting, but still planning to move to
Meetecho for upcoming meetings. Please stay alert!
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Shared-COMIMD-for-notetaking-httpscodimdietforgnotes-cellar-virtual1>Shared
COMIMD for notetaking: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual

   - Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you’ll be able to
   edit these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
   - Please ask Spencer if you have questions.

The ComiMD URL is still redirecting, but the newly official location is
https://notes.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual?edit - and that’s active now.
Please bookmark the new one when you’re redirected to it.
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Logistics-for-Meeting1>Logistics for Meeting
<https://notes.ietf.org/#2021-virtual-interim-meeting-dates1>2021 virtual
interim meeting dates

   - Please note our 2021 dates listed at
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/
   - November 23, 2021: 21:00 Paris (2000 UTC)

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Agenda-Items1>Agenda Items
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Note-Well-httpswwwietforgaboutnote-well1>Note
Well: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Roll-call1>Roll call

Attendees

   - Spencer Dawkins
   - Michael Richardson
   - Steve Lhomme
   - Jerome Martinez
   - Martijn van Beurden
   - Reto Kromer
   - Dave Rice
   - Michael Niedermayer

Regrets
*
<https://notes.ietf.org/#News-You-Can-Use1>News You Can Use

   - NOTE that https://mediaarea.net/NoTimeToWait5 is December 8-10, with
   in-person and virtual registration - a lot of us are attending
   ** workshop on improving Matroska, and how to improve FFV1.
   ** the workshops are on December 8, meeting 9/10.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Proposed-final-dates-for-2022-Cellar-meetings>Proposed
final dates for 2022 Cellar meetings

   - 2022-01-25
   - 2022-02-22
   - 2022-03-29
   - 2022-04-26
   - 2022-05-24
   - 2022-06-28
   - 2022-08-23
   - 2022-09-27
   - 2022-10-25
   - 2022-12-06

ACTION Michael sending request to our ADs and requesting secretariat to add
these meetings in the datatracker
<https://notes.ietf.org/#WG-status-update1>WG status update

   - draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-00 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID
   Exists New this month
   - draft-ietf-cellar-codec-07 was posted 2021-10-19, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-control-00 was posted 21-10-09, in ID Exists New
   this month
   - draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-17 was posted 2021-05-25, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-flac-01 was posted 2021-04-27, in ID Exists, New
   version being posted manually
   - draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-08 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-tags-0 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Milestone-review1>Milestone review:

   - Previous status: Jerome is now able to focus on FFV1-v4, since we’ve
   published FFV1. ACTION Spencer to send e-mail to DISPATCH when we submit
   a (small) update. We should wait until we have a bit more text, or bigger
   issues, to publish as a draft.
   - Are we ready to submit a working group draft for EBML updates (errata
   plus additions) yet? (
   https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/corrections-doc)
   - we can still wait for more feedback/bigger changes before submitting
   anything - ETA is “after we get Matroska out, so we know everything
   Matroska needs will be covered”
   - Have we selected a new editor for FLAC? actually, no, and we need to.
   This work is heating up, but until this becomes a bottleneck, we can wait
   until Matroska is out

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Accept-draft-minutes-from-previous-meeting-attached-below1>Accept
draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

   - Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list.
   - No objections on the mailing list or on the call.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Making-sure-we-have-copyright-issues-straightened-out-for-the-FLAC-specification1>Making
sure we have copyright issues straightened out for the FLAC specification

   - Remember, the issue we care about right now is whether the IETF can
   publish a FLAC specification
   - Our “last Contact” for the specification we’re working with, is
   “Copyright © 2000-2009 Josh Coalson, 2011-2014 Xiph.Org
   <http://xiph.org/> Foundation” (https://xiph.org/flac/format.html)

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Discussion-on-the-call11>Discussion on the call

   - We are still verifying what the license covering the specification is
   - it’s GFL 1.1, specified in the HTML file
   - Continue with the current document, or start a new one?
   - Dave has confirmed with Andrew Weaver that he’s not interested in
   continuing the work
   - Our issue is that the IETF licensing is incompatible with GFL license,
   because we’re using copyright as a substitute for a trademark, since
   trademark doesn’t exist in all countries
   - This is probably a conversation we should have with the IETF Trust
   - We should also give our ADs a heads-up
   - Michael is writing a note to the IETF Trust on our call, asking for
   guidance

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Matroska-issues---Discussion-on-the-call1>Matroska
issues - Discussion on the call

   - Merging the easy PRs for now
   - Two categories of issues are left
   - Checking with Moritz on 3-4 pull requests, can move ahead without a
   reply
   - Steve - we’re close to being ready for a full review
   - New Matroska docs were taken out of the main specification, and aren’t
   blocking for us to move forward
   - Both new documents need closer looks and discussion

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FLAC-issues---Discussion-on-the-call1>FLAC issues
- Discussion on the call

   - Lots of open issues and PRs are new
   - We have a new version, being posted manually
   - (“Ongoing”)
   - We need to track our changes to FLAC while we chase down the plan for
   dealing with the original text

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FFV1-v4-issues---Discussion-on-the-call1>FFV1 v4
issues - Discussion on the call

   - No discussion on the call

<https://notes.ietf.org/#AOB1>AOB?

   - We have new test files repos - ACTION Spencer to update our activity
   report
   - We will meet on Whereby in November meeting, and then (try to) migrate
   to MeetEcho as a group
   - Keep an eye on CoViD-19 situations no matter where you are and where
   you will be!

NEXT MEETING 2021-11-23