Subject: [clue] Area of scene

From: Christian Groves <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:21:50 +1100

Hello

I just watched the meetecho CLUE WG discussion on the "area of scene".

I think there was some confusion about that the 4 values represented a 
plane. I think the original intention of adding this was that it 
represented the "room" volume rather than a single plane.

The reason for this attribute was to be able to determine how the 
various capture areas related to the overall room space. It would also 
give some idea of scale of the room.

Regards, Christian

---

From: John Leslie <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 08:15:11 -0400

Christian Groves <[email-masked]> wrote:
> plane.

   I would agree -- at least _some_ confusion...

> I think the original intention of adding this was that it represented
> the "room" volume rather than a single plane.

   Obviously, "area of scene" is a poor name for a representation of a
room's volume. Possibly there was an intent for it to describe the
floor area; or possibly it was mostly hand-waving...

> various capture areas related to the overall room space.

   I will admit to being confused how it could do that.

> It would also give some idea of scale of the room.

   Scale of the room would be "nice to know" but I'm not sure it's
actually all that useful. It really doesn't buy much for video; and
I suspect that for audio, deriving the impulse response would work
much better.

--
John Leslie <[email-masked]>

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From: Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:53:16 +0800

Christian,

My point in raising the issue was that a planar "area of scene" is 
nonsense when the captures may be arbitrarily arranged in 3-space.

As I understood the conversation, the general sense was that nobody had 
a compelling need for a "volume of capture", and so its easier just to 
omit this entirely. Certainly it can be added in later if some 
significant need is identified. Omitting it allows us to avoid some rat 
holes, such as what is a sufficient representation of the volume.

	Thanks,
	Paul

On 3/18/13 8:21 AM, Christian Groves wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> clue mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue
>

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From: Christian Groves <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:46:04 +1100

Hello Paul,

Yes I agree planar "area of scene" is nonsense.

Another thing it could be used for perhaps is to get a sense of the 
acoustics of the room? i.e. an auditorium sized area versus a meeting room

I agree that setting a volume based on 4 point may be hard if you have a 
curved room :-).

Regards, Christian

On 19/03/2013 12:53 AM, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> As I understood the conversation, the general sense was that nobody 
> had a compelling need for a "volume of capture", and so its easier 
> just to omit this entirely. Certainly it can be added in later if some 
> significant need is identified. Omitting it allows us to avoid some 
> rat holes, such as what is a sufficient representation of the volume.
>
>     Thanks,
>     Paul
>

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From: "Duckworth, Mark" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 08:53:21 -0700

I agree with Paul - "the general sense was that nobody had a compelling need for a "volume of capture", and so it's easier just to omit this entirely".  I propose we remove it from the framework and data model.

I looked for the history of why "Area of Scene" was added in the first place, but I can't find any documentation of why we added it.  It first appeared in draft-ietf-clue-framework-01, which was shortly after the October 2011 interim meeting in Andover.  I couldn't find anything in the interim meeting notes or on the email list about why we added it.

It seems to me there is nothing in the use cases or requirements documents that would require this area (or volume) of scene attribute, so removing it to simplify things seems like a good idea.

Mark

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
> Christian Groves
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:46 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [clue] Area of scene
> 
> Hello Paul,
> 
> Another thing it could be used for perhaps is to get a sense of the acoustics
> of the room? i.e. an auditorium sized area versus a meeting room
> 
> >> I think there was some confusion about that the 4 values represented
> >> a plane. I think the original intention of adding this was that it
> >> various capture areas related to the overall room space. It would
> >> also give some idea of scale of the room.
> >>
> >> Regards, Christian

---

From: Christian Groves <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:47:30 +1100

Hello Mark,

I had a look also, I couldn't find anything either. I don't have any 
objection to remove it if no one is planning on using it.

Christian