Subject: Re: [Detnet] V2V of draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00.txt

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:43:01 +0100

Hi DetNetters,

At [email-masked] email list we have a V2V use-case.  Please discuss V2V
there.  We try to BoF in Buenos Aires.  Examples of V2V use-cases are 
C-ACC and Platooning.

The use of the word low in low-latency for V2V means that going directly 
it is lower than going through cellular network.  It does not 
necessarily mean guaranteed delivery.

> 7.5.  Vehicle to Vehicle
>
> V2V communication has gained more and more attention in the last few
>  years and will be increasingly growth in the future.  Not only
> equipped with direct communication system which is short ranged, V2V
>  communication also requires wireless cellular networks to cover wide
>  range and more sophisticated services

3GPP (a widely-deployed cellular network) talks "D2D"
and sometimes ProSe for Proximity Services. Check:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petrescu-its-cacc-sdo-04#page-8

> V2V application in the area autonomous driving has very stringent
> requirements of latency and reliability.

YEs, we described it in the C-ACC and Platooning at SDO draft.
draft-petrescu-its-cacc-sdo-04

> It is critical that the timely arrival of information for safety
> issues.

YEs.  But this is guaranteed by the link layer.

> In addition, due to the limitation of processing of individual
> vehicle,

There is no such limitation.  Even the entry-level automobiles feature 
very powerful computers in terms of processing messages coming from the 
network.

Currently, the processing power of computers of vehicles may be limited
compared to the processing needed for live scene analysis with data fed
by some lidars.  But that is not V2V communication.  It is on-board
communication between lidar and computer.  You can improve that with, 
say, a more recent Ethernet or more recent Intel CPUs.

On another hand, in V2V communications one does not even know how to 
establish 1-hop IP paths.

> passing information to the cloud can provide more functions such as
> video processing, audio recognition or navigation systems.

Yes, we have done that.

But this has nothing to do with V2V.  It is called Vehicle-to-Internet.

There are efforts to improve the latency of
Vehicle-to-Internet and that is called 5G.

> All of those requirements lead to a highly reliable connectivity to
> the cloud.

Yes, that is V2Internet.  A new link layer may realize a highly reliable 
connectivity to the cloud.  On that link one may use DHCP, PPP and 
Mobile IP.

> On the other hand, it is natural that the provisioning of low latency
> communication is one of the main challenges to be overcome as a
> result of the high mobility, the high penetration losses caused by
> the vehicle itself.

What is "high penetration losses caused by the vehicle"?

> As result of that, the data transmission with latency below 5ms and
> a high reliability of PER below 10E-6 are demanded.

Latency and reliability are two different things.

Latency can be provided by some mechanisms, whereas reliability by
others.  They should not be mixed.

Again, for V2V, the main problem is to how to get IP communication paths 
in the first place (before thinking to make them reliable).

> It can benefit from the deployment of deterministic networking with
> high reliability.

...

Alex

Le 16/12/2015 02:39, [email-masked] a écrit :
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic
> Networking Working Group of the IETF.
>
> Title           : Deterministic Networking Use Cases Authors : Ethan
>  Grossman Craig Gunther Pascal Thubert Patrick Wetterwald Jean
> Raymond Jouni Korhonen Yu Kaneko Subir Das Yiyong Zha Filename :
> draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00.txt Pages           : 81 Date :
> 2015-12-15
>
> Abstract: This draft documents requirements in several diverse
> industries to establish multi-hop paths for characterized flows with
> deterministic properties.  In this context deterministic implies that
> streams can be established which provide guaranteed bandwidth and
> latency which can be established from either a Layer 2 or Layer 3
> (IP) interface, and which can co-exist on an IP network with
> best-effort traffic.
>
> Additional requirements include optional redundant paths, very high
> reliability paths, time synchronization, and clock distribution.
> Industries considered include wireless for industrial applications,
> professional audio, electrical utilities, building automation
> systems, radio/mobile access networks, automotive, and gaming.
>
> For each case, this document will identify the application, identify
>  representative solutions used today, and what new uses an IETF
> DetNet solution may enable.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases/
>
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
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