Subject: [edu-team] Crawling out of the basement on XML2RFC

From: "Spencer Dawkins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:14:31 -0500

I stayed with Margaret while she gave the XML2RFC tutorial at IETF 66. 
Here's what I saw:

- Nice turnout. Did we get a count? I thought the number was about 30, but I 
didn't write this down at the time, and could have been confused since then

- Nice job (since I know when Margaret was asked to fill in!)

- Margaret asked who was using what currently - 1 hand for nroff, 1 for 
Word, everyone else was XML2RFC

- someone (who?) said date that specified only the month "croaks"

- Bob Braden pointed out that the RFC Editor uses "o" as the symbol list 
tag, which is not the XML2RFC default tag

- Margaret had to vamp through "the really great thing about cross 
references" because it wasn't on a slide

- after the class, Margaret and I both said we don't use iref, eref, or 
cref. If these are to be retained in the tutorial, they need examples (I 
only knew what cref was, of the three), but Margaret and I discussed the 
possibility of barebones presentation (don't teach everything about XML2RFC, 
only what people MUST know in order to use it).

- other people probably know more about XML2RFC than I do, but the reason I 
didn't volunteer was because I had (foolishly) assumed that the class would 
also include information about how to install XML2RFC, XMLMind, XXE, etc. 
locally - and it doesn't include this yet.

Thanks,

Spencer 

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:50:54 +0200

> Word, everyone else was XML2RFC

But with a self-selected audience, that isn't informative. The
time that I informally surveyed the community, it was 25:25:50
in favour of XML2RFC.

     Brian

---

From: Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:52:56 -0400

Just FYI --

On Jul 22, 2006, at 7:40 AM, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
> I don't know why Margaret asked the question (and survey  
> methodology does matter), I was just reporting the conversation.

I did not ask the question as a community survey or anything like  
that...

I often ask a couple of questions at the beginning of a class, for  
two reasons:

(1) So that I can gauge the audience's previous level of experience  
with the material.  This lets me know how much I should focus on the  
introductory material.  In this case there were a significant number  
of people in the class who weren't using XML2RFC, so I asked the  
experienced people to bear with me while I covered the introductory  
material in some depth.

(2) I was taught in some "how to do a more effective presentation"  
class once that if you ask the audience a few questions at the  
beginning of a presentation its sets a more informal tone where they  
will feel comfortable asking questions and/or interrupting you.  Like  
most things they tell you in those classes, this may or may not be  
true...  But, I tried it a few times and I felt like the class was  
more engaged.  So, I still do it, especially when I am feeling  
nervous and think that a more informal tone may be helpful.

So, I wasn't trying to figure out anything about the community-at- 
large, just about the folks in the room.

Margaret

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:32:40 +0200

But it does raise the question of whether we should be trying to
persuade more people to switch. If we got to 90% usage of XML2RFC,
it would open up the option of making it required instead of optional.

     Brian

Margaret Wasserman wrote:
>> I don't know why Margaret asked the question (and survey  methodology 
>> does matter), I was just reporting the conversation.
> 
> 
> I did not ask the question as a community survey or anything like  that...
> 
> I often ask a couple of questions at the beginning of a class, for  two 
> reasons:
> 
> introductory material.  In this case there were a significant number  of 
> people in the class who weren't using XML2RFC, so I asked the  
> true...  But, I tried it a few times and I felt like the class was  more 
> engaged.  So, I still do it, especially when I am feeling  nervous and 
> think that a more informal tone may be helpful.
>