Subject: draft-daviel-html-geo-tag-05.txt

From: felix kaegi <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 19:53:34 +0100

Gentlemen

This document is about a potential HTML protocol extension. Again
I'd like to state, that it is under the responsibility of an HTML author
creating documents by hand or using automatic coding or authoring tools.
How ever, if using
such tools the author must be concerned about the options and settings of 
his tools.

It is the same with the "automatic speed control" option in a car:
You may use it, and it may make life easier, but it does not take your 
responsibility for what you are doing.

I feel that some force just does not want inovation. May be W3C likes the 
paper more ?

   Regards, felix

>It do create privacy issues as the general user on the Internet today
>doesn't create the HTML, various software programs do that. Those programs
>already today include information automatically without the user doing
>anything, and if one add geographical information to that, the privacy
>issues gets even more important than they are today.
>
>So, the IESG does not agree with you on this point.
>
>      Regards, paf
>

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From: Patrik Fältström <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:44:23 +0100

> such tools the author must be concerned about the options and settings of

The point IESG is making is that this problem is not described enough in
the document. That is different than saying the problem have to be solved
in this document alone.

The "Security Consideration Section" is to be read by the people interested
in the protocol, which include the people writing software which create
HTML. It is extremely important the text in this section is written in a
way so the implementor create the application so the end-user have
influence over this data.

That is not the case with other data which today is put automatically in
the html code, and IESG is concerned over that fact.

   paf

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From: Andrew Daviel <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 03:10:53 -0800 (PST)

> the html code, and IESG is concerned over that fact.

My apologies for not following up on this in a more timely fashion.

I believed that I had described the problem in this revision of the
document. The location data is intended to specifically refer to
the content of the page, not the author, and as such should not
under normal circumstances be generated automatically such as is
often done for author, publisher, generating software etc.
However I acknowledge that there may be cases where location data is
generated on a dynamic page in real-time, where there is cause for
concern if the operator is unaware of the fact. In normal use, there is
in my opinion no additional privacy or security risk over that
engendered by someone placing their name and address on a page and
another user reading it, or of someone filling out a lifestyle survey in
a magazine. (That is not to say that I regard such risk
as minimal, but that I believe it is regarded as a currently acceptable
level of risk by the majority of (perhaps ill-informed) people. In fact,
I am somewhat concerned over the easy availability of telephone
directories and other personal data in fully-searchable form. Maybe I
should change my name to "Smith" ...)

If there is some specific discussion or recommendation which would
render the draft acceptable to IESG then clearly that could be
inserted; in fact I thought this had already been done once.
Perhaps I just have to wait for the privacy draft to be
finalised and refer to that.

Dante  Castiglione writes:

>I do not understand *from* *where* the HTML creation program may take
>this "geographical information" to put it on a hidden tag.

Either (incorrectly) from some user configuration about the webserver
or author, as is inserted by e.g. Microsoft Word, or indeed from a GPS
device. I read that the price of these is expected to fall rapidly, and
navigation software such as is used on private boats and aircraft may
become ubiquitous, as in Japan.

-- 

Andrew Daviel
Vancouver Webpages