Subject: RE: [idn] Report from the ACE design team

From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 13:06:25 -0400

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Makoto Ishisone [mailto:[email-masked]]
>Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 12:32 PM
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: [idn] Report from the ACE design team
>

[snip]

>2) Potential migration problem
>   Many NICs has already begun registering internationalized domain
>   names using RACE as the ACE.  In RACE, any names up to
>   17-characters can be fit in 63-octet label.  So it is possible that
>   some of the registered names suddenly become invalid when migration
>   from RACE to DUDE take place.  Of course it is a risk that they
>   have to take, but if choosing other ACE can prevent it, or lower
>   the possibility, it might be a better choice.

One data point WRT this concern: In at least one implementation that I'm
familiar with, there is expected to be a _very_ small number of names
(0.01%) that become invalid due to length restrictions when converting from
RACE to DUDE.

<Scott/>

---

From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 17:10:03 -0400

> From: Marc Blanchet [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 1:55 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: RE: [idn] Report from the ACE design team
> 
> 
> and how many were not included at all in the testbeds because they were
too 
> long?  The fact that some cannot be converted doesn't mean that the
current 
> length is enough!
> 
> I think the testbed-need-to-convert-already-registered-names-to-new-ace 
> argument (for both Makoto-san and Scott) is weak:

Mark, I provided the data point to share an observation based on experience
with 920,000+ labels that DUDE does not appear to exceed the 63-character
label limit any more than RACE does.  I didn't claim an issue with or
attempt to argue any other point.

<Scott/>

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

This is a problem of uniform encoding design for all the code points
 in UNICODE.  Some languages needs 26x1 as in ASCII, some needs 
26x2 as in English and some needs 26x3 as in Latin.  Chinese needs
26x10 not beacuse it can cover only 260 particles, it is due to phonetic
element description of  about 1200 sounds of  "mandarin" Chinese. 
When different Chinese character grouped together and form a "normally"
unique identification and good enough for a historically accepted phrase
or ideom, which is extrapolated  to as it is good enough as a registered 
name.  A semantic equivlent phrase  such as "Hitting two birds with one
stone" in Chinese is 4 characters.  This is 27 user readable octets in 
English.  In registered donmain name using StepCode this would be 
"yishiliangniao1233", 18 user readable octets. 
In UNICODE, this is 16 octets, and so it is in DUDE.  

I don't know how the Japanese phonetic system defined in detail. But
at least they are information density for each symbol is different with
the 
26 letters, and their Hiragana and Katakana together only needs 26x8
code points.  So for often used Japanese characters, it is possible only
2 octets is enough.  Now DUDE forces Japanese to use up 4 octets each
character, I don't see how you can let that go as your principle of the 
design concern is in compression rate?

Liana

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 13:36:34 -0700 Paul Hoffman / IMC <[email-masked]>
writes:
> At 1:32 AM +0900 6/26/01, Makoto Ishisone wrote:
> >The following points are my main concern:
> >
> >1) Is 14-15 character is enough?
> >    At least for Japanese domain names, name of a company or an
> >    organization is sometimes quite long.  My question is whether 
> the
> >    maximum of 14-15 character name for CJK is enough or not.
> 
> There is an assumption in those statements, which is that a Japanese 
> 
> or Chinese company with a very long name would need a DNS name that 
> is as long as their very long name. As we have discussed on this 
> list 
> many times, companies and organizations with "difficult" names (such 
> 
> as very long or hard to remember) often would prefer to use shorter 
> domain names that are more useful to end users. These might be 
> abbreviations or pseudonyms, but the result is the same: a domain 
> name that end users can transcribe more easily. So, the question of 
> maximum 15 characters is not "are there names that are this long" 
> because certainly there are (just as there are European company 
> names 
> that are too long for any ACE encoding), but "are there names that 
> this long that people would actually want end users to enter". This, 
> 
> of course, is a judgement call.
> 
> I agree with the others who have said that this should not be an 
> issue. If we try to balance with RACE, we must also balance with all 
> 
> the other pre-standard encodings, some of which can handle CJK names 
> 
> that are longer than any ACE could possibly achieve.
> 
> --Paul Hoffman, Director
> --Internet Mail Consortium
>

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From: [email-masked]
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Liana

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From: [email-masked]
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From [email-masked]

> Could you please give some example of a name of
> a Japanese organization with a long string of characters? (actually the
> number of characters in Japanese and a rough translation will suffice,
> since I cannot read Japanese).

Sure.  I looked around and found two examples.  Both names exceed 15
characters and DUDE cannot encode them, but other more space efficient
ACEs can.

1. JPNIC (the registry of .jp domain)
JPNIC's official name consists of 25 characters.  Most of the characters
are phonograms (Katakana), though.

  U+793E U+56E3 U+6CD5 U+4EBA U+65E5 U+672C U+30CD U+30C3 U+30C8 \
  U+30EF U+30FC U+30AF U+30A4 U+30F3 U+30D5 U+30A9 U+30E1 U+30FC \
  U+30B7 U+30E7 U+30F3 U+30BB U+30F3 U+30BF U+30FC

2. A helth-insurance organization in Tokyo
This name also contains a few phonograms, but most are ideograms.

  U+6771 U+4EAC U+90FD U+60C5 U+5831 U+30B5 U+30FC U+30D3 U+30B9 \
  U+7523 U+696D U+5065 U+5EB7 U+4FDD U+967A U+7D44 U+5408

						   -- [email-masked]

My commend:

The DUDE has a universal appeal for most languages in UNICODE,
but disregards the readability for people not reading the local script 
or do not have local script support, where most international working
people really need.  For example, an English speaker do not have 
Chinese support on his computer, but receives mails from a few 
Chinese e-mail servers, and has no option to tell where the e-mail comes 
 from besides the .cn country code.   In Chinese, a typical name of a 
company comsists the name of its province, its city, its county or
district, 
its Xiang, or/and its individual brand name, its village name, its
genentic 
business and its corporation type.  It is 10 -13 characters long for well

known entities, and 12 - 15 as the necessary length for more localized 
names as current computerization status concerns.  To say 15 
characters is enough is a strech, beause its village size is from 4 
persons in Tibet to several thousands residents in a populated area.  
There is no problem with DUDE in general, but such a tangled email 
header of 1000 companies will give the international worker a real 
headache.

However, using standard StepCode for IDN such a name can be 
phoneticly supported.  For example: 
Liaoning22Shenyang32Nanhu22Datan22Xiehe22YiYuan14
with 50 octets for a hospital.  For a grade school e-mail address,
we need another two characters for sure and reachs the limit of 
DUDE.  With phrasal StepCode by consider the address as one 
unit for IDN, this can be 
LiaoningShenyangNanhuDatanXieheYiYuan-12 in 27 octets. 
 
I suggest the WG to work out and recommend a standarded 
StepCode configuration for IDN to complement DUDE, such 
that DUDE will be the default ACE with a higher compression rate 
in a general and StepCode be the language tagged ACE for users 
who need  
1. the readability of e-mail addresses;
2. localized compression scheme;
3. the option to specify logos or trademarks outside UNICODE 
standard.

If we can have a consensus on support another ACE to address
the above needs, I would support DUDE. 

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:51:34 -0700

Correction for

It should be 37 octets, and I have to add that the example
address length I have given is the lower bound, since
I did not use any names with three characters. 

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: "Larson, Matt" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:15:31 -0700

> Since there are pre-existing NIC RACE databases, can representatives
> from those NICS give us a histogram for different CJK domain name
> lengths?

I know this isn't exactly what you asked for, but below is a histogram
on
the length of the 625,354 unique RACE strings registered in VeriSign
GRS's
IDN testbed.  Domain names can be registered in the testbed using any
combination of Unicode code points, so some CJK names contain only CJK
code
points while others a mix of CJK and other code point ranges.  I'll work
on
a histogram of the "pure" CJK names next.

Matt
--
Matt Larson <[email-masked]>
VeriSign Global Registry Services

 1:   7177
 2:  80422
 3:  97506
 4: 175787
 5:  86727
 6:  63108
 7:  37859
 8:  23710
 9:  15005
10:  10772
11:   7280
12:   5193
13:   3770
14:   2870
15:   2127
16:   1695
17:   1227
18:    910
19:    685
20:    505
21:    333
22:    195
23:    142
24:     81
25:     86
26:     48
27:     41
28:     17
29:     13
30:     16
31:     17
32:     16
33:      5
34:      4

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 04:06:57 -0700

[email-masked] wrote:
 
> Assertion that there are long organization names is not a
> demonstration that there is a practical need or desire to
> register such long names.
> 
> And even if you might be able to point, perhaps, to some
> Chinese government plan to require domain name registrations
> using some bureaucratic scheme of 
> province/city/district/xiang/business-type
> naming, as Liana Ye has alluded to, that doesn't mean that people
> will actually want to use such 15 character monstrosities or
> won't demand some shorter way to deal with them. Why would people
> want to type 40 - 60 keystrokes in their input method to
> use such an IDN, when they might be able to get to the same
> place with "xyz.cn" already?
> 

Oh, you got the whole concept twisted.  It is not the Chinese 
government plan to "require", since the government
are the big guys, they already have  taken the short names.  It is the
small guys, who wants to register later and found too many name 
conflicts, they have to use province/city/district/xiang to seperate 
themselves from the big guys, if they want national exposure as
it is commonly done in the States.  

By the way, the grade school website here in the State is using the 
county/district/school name as its domain name.  For China, 
county names will have phonetic conflict, so the user has to decide
which way they want to separate themselves from the earler 
registrant.

> Further, accomodation of long names for domains is only part of the
> design criteria for an effective ACE. While good compression
> for an ACE *should* be a criterion, to provide decent handling
> of long names for all scripts, it cannot be taken as the
> overriding, all-important criterion. If you go that route,
> then you would be led to embrace the unbounded complexity of
> something like the StepCode proposal, which shortens the ASCII
> forms by using transliteration schemes, rather than a simple
> algorithm for a compressed reencoding of the character values.
> 
> --Ken
> 

Unbounded complexity?  I am sorry to give you that impression.
StepCode is a stepped scheme, each step is one iteration of
the method.  It can go as far as the anyone wants it, it is a 
recursive method.  The first step is the most simple way to encode
both for the computer as well as for the language users.  It uses
existing phonetic standards to represent a glyph.  As a programmer,
you don't need to worry about that standard, all you need to provide
is a tool to use that standard, that is allowing for language tag to
be used.  For IDN application, if you worry about complexity then
you may vote for only allow one step of StepCode to be used.  
In fact, the way I have describe earler
to combine a domain name into one phrase is a half of the 
first step and good enough for the purpose of domain name 
registration. 

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:09:05 -0700

Liana