Subject: [idn] pool deadline imminent, DUDE is only ACE in pool

From: "Adam M. Costello" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:46:10 +0000

I didn't really understand until this morning that any proposal that
doesn't have seven supporters by tomorrow will be out of the running.

Right now, DUDE is the only ACE in the pool.  If there is to be an
alternative to consider, at least seven people must coalesce around some
other proposal.  I suggest AMC-ACE-Z:

draft-costello-idn-amc-ace-z-00.txt  (submitted, should appear soon)
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~amc/charset/amc-ace-z.gz

Here is an analysis showing why AMC-ACE-Z is the best alternative to
DUDE, and is arguably preferable to DUDE:

http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~amc/charset/ace-eval.gz

If you wish to express support for AMC-ACE-Z, please send mail (very
soon) to me <[email-masked]>, not to the list.

Finally, please forgive me for soliciting support on the list.  It would
have been more proper for me to send mail privately to people I thought
might be interested, but I'm not sure who those people are, and time is
almost up.

AMC

---

From: "Edmon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:37:12 -0400

From: "Adam M. Costello" <[email-masked]>
> doesn't have seven supporters by tomorrow will be out of the running.
I didn't either.
Forgive me also to advertise on this list for some support on my ACE37
proposal:
You can find it at
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chung-idn-ace37-00.txt

here is a summary:

- ACE37 is a combination of DUDE, AMC-W/V & LACE (the three primary ACE
identified by the design team)
- ACE37 utilizes simple code block reordering (without requiring mapping) to
optimize diff so that there could be at least 21 Han ideographs within a 63
octet constraint (19 characters if 59 octets is used)
- ACE37 uses a single pass, single mode system that is almost as simple as
DUDE (a C implementation will be pubished soon to illustrate further that it
is as simple as DUDE)
- ACE37 uses all 37 characters allowed in the current DNS to optimize
compression

Edmon

---

From: "Soobok Lee" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:09:07 +0900

My I-D on "Improving ACE using code point reordering"
is looking forward to your supports. It has no contenders, 
only need your interests.

It  helps AMC-AMC-Z/DUDE's mean ACE label lengths 
to be close to that of UCS-2 ( 2*n) for 7 or more letters of 
typical han/hangul IDNs and does better compression for
other scripts, too.

To express your interests ( does not necessarily mean 
you support all the aspects of my I-D version1.0 )
in REORDERING, do not hesitate to send mail to me  
<[email-masked]>. 

You can find my recent I-D (soon to be revised in IDN wg home).
http://www.postel.co.kr/lsb-ace-01.txt   (version 1.0)

Soobok Lee

=========================================================
The following attachment shows the amounts of
improvements achieved for big ML.com samples.

For Chinese ML.com samples.

N:            length of a domain label ( # of code points)
FREQ:         number domains of length N
N*FREQ:       sum of # of code points of domains of length N
SUM OF AMCZ:  sum of lengths of AMCZ labels
X:            SUM OF AMCZ / N * FREQ
SUM OF LAMCZ: sum of lengths of LAMCZ labels
Y:            SUM OF LAMCZ / N * FREQ
COMP:         (SUM OF LAMCZ - SUM OF AMCZ) / SUM OF AMCZ * 100

|  N|    FREQ|    N*FREQ|  SUM OF AMCZ(X)| SUM OF LAMCZ(Y)| COMP|

|  1|    4642|      4642|     15804(3.40)|     14807(3.19)|6.31|
|  2|   59708|    119416|    401549(3.36)|    352022(2.95)|12.33|
|  3|   49471|    148413|    484456(3.26)|    415104(2.80)|14.32|
|  4|   99402|    397608|   1269398(3.19)|   1034646(2.60)|18.49|
|  5|   29974|    149870|    467070(3.12)|    381651(2.55)|18.29|
|  6|   20809|    124854|    384013(3.08)|    304635(2.44)|20.67|
|  7|    8860|     62020|    186347(3.00)|    147111(2.37)|21.06|
|  8|    5251|     42008|    124325(2.96)|     97303(2.32)|21.73|
|  9|    2666|     23994|     69234(2.89)|     54697(2.28)|21.00|
| 10|    2008|     20080|     57887(2.88)|     44270(2.20)|23.52|
| 11|     859|      9449|     26914(2.85)|     20836(2.21)|22.58|
| 12|     671|      8052|     22819(2.83)|     17294(2.15)|24.21|
| 13|     346|      4498|     12217(2.72)|      9581(2.13)|21.58|
| 14|     235|      3290|      9084(2.76)|      6933(2.11)|23.68|
| 15|     117|      1755|      4723(2.69)|      3721(2.12)|21.22|
| 16|      68|      1088|      2884(2.65)|      2258(2.08)|21.71|
| 17|      21|       357|       911(2.55)|       704(1.97)|22.72|

|   |  285108|   1121394|   3539635(3.16)|   2907573(2.59)|17.86|

For Korean ML.com samples.

N:            length of a domain label ( # of code points)
FREQ:         number domains of length N
N*FREQ:       sum of # of code points of domains of length N
SUM OF AMCZ:  sum of lengths of AMCZ labels
X:            SUM OF AMCZ / N * FREQ
SUM OF LAMCZ: sum of lengths of LAMCZ labels
Y:            SUM OF LAMCZ / N * FREQ
COMP:         (SUM OF LAMCZ - SUM OF AMCZ) / SUM OF AMCZ * 100

|  N|    FREQ|    N*FREQ|  SUM OF AMCZ(X)| SUM OF LAMCZ(Y)| COMP|

|  1|    1941|      1941|      7764(4.00)|      7764(4.00)|0.00|
|  2|   16978|     33956|    123248(3.63)|    105628(3.11)|14.30|
|  3|   38852|    116556|    394410(3.38)|    322373(2.77)|18.26|
|  4|   61642|    246568|    803121(3.26)|    625970(2.54)|22.06|
|  5|   40375|    201875|    639079(3.17)|    483118(2.39)|24.40|
|  6|   24561|    147366|    458978(3.11)|    337398(2.29)|26.49|
|  7|   13034|     91238|    280346(3.07)|    203406(2.23)|27.44|
|  8|    5596|     44768|    136452(3.05)|     97248(2.17)|28.73|
|  9|    2421|     21789|     65504(3.01)|     46536(2.14)|28.96|
| 10|    1033|     10330|     29964(2.90)|     21330(2.06)|28.81|
| 11|     427|      4697|     13845(2.95)|      9739(2.07)|29.66|
| 12|     173|      2076|      5905(2.84)|      4261(2.05)|27.84|
| 13|      96|      1248|      3588(2.88)|      2539(2.03)|29.24|
| 14|      32|       448|      1331(2.97)|       921(2.06)|30.80|
| 15|      22|       330|       927(2.81)|       675(2.05)|27.18|
| 16|      15|       240|       606(2.52)|       471(1.96)|22.28|
| 17|       8|       136|       378(2.78)|       267(1.96)|29.37|
| 19|       1|        19|        26(1.37)|        26(1.37)|0.00|

|   |  207207|    925581|   2965472(3.20)|   2269670(2.45)|23.46|

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Soobok Lee" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:37 PM
Subject: chinese/hangul ML.com statistics with DUDE/LDUDE

>   
> The next table is from
> 285108 chinese ML.com samples (old raw data from VGRS). 
>  
> "COMP" column includes improvement ratios of LDUDE over DUDE.
> "Y" column points that  for long chinese domains, LDUDE's label
> length is close to (2.0~2.5)*(input domain length).
> 
> 
> N:            length of a domain label ( # of code points)
> FREQ:         number domains of length N
> SUM OF DUDE:  sum of lengths of DUDE labels
> X:            SUM OF DUDE / N * FREQ
> SUM OF LDUDE: sum of lengths of LDUDE labels
> Y:            SUM OF LDUDE / N * FREQ
> COMP:         (SUM OF LDUDE - SUM OF DUDE) / SUM OF DUDE * 100
> 
> |  N|    FREQ|    N*FREQ|  SUM OF DUDE(X)| SUM OF LDUDE(Y)| COMP|
> 
> |  1|    4642|      4642|     18568(4.00)|     18568(4.00)| 0.00|
> |  2|   59708|    119416|    462031(3.87)|    415599(3.48)|10.05|
> |  3|   49471|    148413|    566440(3.82)|    477649(3.22)|15.68|
> |  4|   99402|    397608|   1509929(3.80)|   1168378(2.94)|22.62|
> |  5|   29974|    149870|    554237(3.70)|    426226(2.84)|23.10|
> |  6|   20809|    124854|    457412(3.66)|    333416(2.67)|27.11|
> |  7|    8860|     62020|    220880(3.56)|    160563(2.59)|27.31|
> |  8|    5251|     42008|    146822(3.50)|    103903(2.47)|29.23|
> |  9|    2666|     23994|     81433(3.39)|     58657(2.44)|27.97|
> | 10|    2008|     20080|     68385(3.41)|     46708(2.33)|31.70|
> | 11|     859|      9449|     31596(3.34)|     22111(2.34)|30.02|
> | 12|     671|      8052|     27039(3.36)|     18135(2.25)|32.93|
> | 13|     346|      4498|     14306(3.18)|     10088(2.24)|29.48|
> | 14|     235|      3290|     10676(3.24)|      7230(2.20)|32.28|
> | 15|     117|      1755|      5568(3.17)|      3854(2.20)|30.78|
> | 16|      68|      1088|      3383(3.11)|      2376(2.18)|29.77|
> | 17|      21|       357|      1075(3.01)|       750(2.10)|30.23|
> 
> |   |  285108|   1121394|   4179780(3.73)|   3274211(2.92)|21.67|
> 
> 
> 
> The next table is  
> From 207207 hangul ML.com samples (old raw data from VGRS). 
> 
> |  N|    FREQ|    N*FREQ|  SUM OF DUDE(X)| SUM OF LDUDE(Y)| COMP|
> 
> |  1|    1941|      1941|      7764(4.00)|      7764(4.00)|0.00|
> |  2|   16978|     33956|    129239(3.81)|    111308(3.28)|13.87|
> |  3|   38852|    116556|    436845(3.75)|    341333(2.93)|21.86|
> |  4|   61642|    246568|    915355(3.71)|    653736(2.65)|28.58|
> |  5|   40375|    201875|    743090(3.68)|    502097(2.49)|32.43|
> |  6|   24561|    147366|    540245(3.67)|    349710(2.37)|35.27|
> |  7|   13034|     91238|    332964(3.65)|    211206(2.31)|36.57|
> |  8|    5596|     44768|    162833(3.64)|    100618(2.25)|38.21|
> |  9|    2421|     21789|     78945(3.62)|     48633(2.23)|38.40|
> | 10|    1033|     10330|     36144(3.50)|     22323(2.16)|38.24|
> | 11|     427|      4697|     16744(3.56)|     10259(2.18)|38.73|
> | 12|     173|      2076|      7178(3.46)|      4578(2.21)|36.22|
> | 13|      96|      1248|      4386(3.51)|      2725(2.18)|37.87|
> | 14|      32|       448|      1656(3.70)|      1006(2.25)|39.25|
> | 15|      22|       330|      1168(3.54)|       750(2.27)|35.79|
> | 16|      15|       240|       757(3.15)|       529(2.20)|30.12|
> | 17|       8|       136|       470(3.46)|       299(2.20)|36.38|
> | 19|       1|        19|        30(1.58)|        30(1.58)|0.00|
> 
> |   |  207207|    925581|   3415813(3.69)|   2368904(2.56)|30.65|
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

---

From: Martin Duerst <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:48:52 +0900

>doesn't have seven supporters by tomorrow will be out of the running.

Just for the record: If anybody is working on a UTF-8 based
(or even ACE/UTF-8 mixed) solution, they herewith all have
my support (I won't tell them one-by-one).

Regards,   Martin.