Subject: Re: CORE == Big Brother ??

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:30:33 EST

In a message dated 98-02-12 12:48:15 EST, [email-masked] writes:

<< And they're not
  taking any more applications >>

Anyone could have become a register in the time frame first introduced. The
fact that they are not at this time taking registrations has no bearing
whatsoever on this discussion. Talk is underway right now to reopen the
application process and allow more registrars to enter. You might not want to
believe it but a significant number of persons have expressed interest in
joining the process.  

I fail to understand the big deal about a $300,000 line of credit...Most 3
bedroom homes in the Northeast United States are worth more than that. What is
wrong with wanting businesses associated with you to have some legitimacy?

You go on and on about the closed society...it doesn't float. The anarchy you
propose would do more damage in a millisecond of operation than the all the
other propositions in the world. Face it, you are two hundred and twenty-two
years to late to make the changes you would propose.

The Europian community WAS not asked for input by Magaziner prior to the
release of the greenpaper...the proof of that is now appearing in their formal
statements of opposition to the GP.  Magaziner treated this as an American
decision then and continues to do so. 

This is a much bigger issue than all the CORE Associations in the world. What
is happening right in front of your eyes is the most disturbing. In several
meetings and in several statements to the press Magaziner has basically said
he really doesn't care what the world community has to say, this is a United
States Commerce issue and will be treated as such...be careful...The Big
Brother you are speaking of is the sheep in wolves clothing. There are many
"good" people at NSI and SAIC that would love for you to believe this is being
done in the interest of the Internet.  I am one of Magaziner's true
experiments...forced in to managed health care. So far nothing the man has set
out to accomplish has done anything but cause grief for the very people he
claims to want to help. Look at his track record..No good can come of the USGP
as no one in the commerce department even has a grasp of the realities. Read
the technical specs..it is there in black and white..you would think they
would have to understand the system wouldn't you?

I am not saying the CORE way is the only way....what I am saying is that if in
an attempt to derail whom you perceive as the enemy you side with the USG you
will have handed the rope to the executioner.  I am not saying join the Gtld-
Mou...I am not even saying to stop all your negative attacks on it...what I am
saying is don't look to the United States Government to be your
savior..because if you do you may end up with a sack full of promises and bits
of shells...our history speaks for itself.

Audrey

---

From: Bob Allisat <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:12:51 -0500

I was quoted and wrote:
>... they're not taking any more applications

>of shells...our history speaks for itself.

 The USG has been burned repeatedly
 and in full, humiliating public on
 Internet related issues again and
 again. The moment we collectively
 start acting as one is the moment
 they will *run* (not walk) from this
 debate. The last thing elected
 officials want is to tangle with
 this medium, believe me.

 The White House was forced into
 action by the continuing and maddening
 obstructionism of Postel and his
 cadre of supporters. The endless
 loop of delay and avoidance tactics
 has allienated myself and other
 supporters of Alternate Internet
 Governance infrastructures. And now
 it appears to have even hit the White
 House, major Internet Corporations
 and, quite possibley, the average
 and long suffering netizen. That's
 a whole whack full of people I'd
 be pretty careful about annoying.

 As for your assertions that CORE
 is about to open up the application
 process no-one is convinced of this.
 Furthermore, the current technical
 and fiscal requirements CORE places
 as the minimum are wildly exagerated.
 The USG Green Paper makes the same
 error. By setting standards so high
 just about every individual or not
 for profit group and most of the so
 called Third or Under-Developed World
 is shut *out* of the picture forever.
 US$10,000 and a US$300,000 line of
 credit are unattainable. Not when
 one will make pennies per domain in
 profits or funds raised.

 A Pentium or Power PC, using standard
 software and average connectivity run
 by a handful of dedicated people for
 next to no money is all that is required
 for a Domain Name Registry/Registrar.
 A full blown NIC may need some more
 but it's all off-the-shelf technically
 speaking. No half million dollars,
 armed guards or silly secret handshakes.
 And by my estimation we can handle
 10,000 new TLDs today and millions
 more if we put our minds to it.

 There in a TeleVirtual nutshell (pun
 and self deprecating humour intended)
 you have it. I resist...

TeleVirtually Yours,

Bob Allisat

http://www.wtv.net
http://www.fcn.net

---

From: Bob Allisat <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:12:51 -0500

TeleVirtually Yours,

Bob Allisat

http://www.wtv.net
http://www.fcn.net

---

From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:34:56 +0000

Audrey and all,

> believe it but a significant number of persons have expressed interest in

  The decision with requiring $300k and a $10k entry fee had not been compleatly
flushed out when it was made a requirnment.  In other words no real consensus
had been reached when it was than etched in stone as a requirnment.  This is
not indicitictive of an open process of any kind that I have ever been involved
in.
In fact when I subbmited a vote on it on the IAHC-Discuss list the majority was
against it that responded.  Though this was certianly not a representitive sample
of the whole Internet community, it is an indicator.

> wrong with wanting businesses associated with you to have some legitimacy?

  First my 5 bdrm home only cost me $225k and that is along with 120 acres.  So
this comparison is moot at best.  However, I AGREE with the $300k line of credit
requirnment.  I did not agree with the maethod in which that was established.
(See comment above) as most of the internet community so far has not either,
especially the VAST majority of the ISP's.

> years to late to make the changes you would propose.

  And I still stand by my assertion that the IAHC process and the MoU
does exactly that.  It does not represent even a representitive sample of the
Internet community and the stake holders.  That is evident with the puny amount of
signatories
that are on the MoU itself.

  The changes I perpose for the MoU process are certianly not to late, and are
already
in place in most representitive democratic governments around the globe.  So you
statment of beeing some 200+ years to late is just hogwash.

> decision then and continues to do so.

  Again you are wrong.  They were and still are ask to participate as are those
whom
support the MoU process as well.  I myself have done some contacting for their
(European)
input to the GP parocess prior to it being published.

> would have to understand the system wouldn't you?

  There is a growing understanding of how the DNS system works within the
USGP and the commerce department.  At least as much understanding as there
is amongst CORE members.  They don't (CORE/POC) even understand the
concept of shared Roots, yet.  At least there are those within the commerce
department
that do quite well.

> of shells...our history speaks for itself.

  I don't precieve anyone to be the enemy at all.  I do view the MoU process
as terribly closed and limiting.  Especially in allowing broader participation
in POC and PAB.  So yes in this sense your history does indeed speek for
itself VERY CLEARLY!

> Audrey

 Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [email-masked]

---

From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:34:56 +0000

Audrey and all,

 Regards,