Subject: Re: Standard Track dependencies on Informational RFCs

From: Scott Bradner <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:31:48 -0400 (EDT)

> Normative references to stable non-standards track documents
> are indeed allowed when those documents are of the nature of
> algorithm descriptions, mathematical theorems, and the like -

there is no such topic-based dispensation in 2026 - the section that Brian
referres to needs to be read in conjunction with sec 4.2.4 pp 2

there is little issue with referring to standards from elsewhere
(see sec 7) even if the standard is published as an info rfc but
just because somone says that a info RFC has a particular type of 
content does not mean that it gets any special treatment

this is not to say that we do not need to figure out how to
deal with this type of case but I do not agree that Brian's way is legit

Scott

---

From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:37:54 -0700

So, it looks like MD5 and HMAC are "Other Specifications" for
which the IESG has requested to be published as Informational RFCs
such that they can be referenced by Standard Track specifications
(per RFC 2026 7.1.2).  I found references to this affect in
the minutes of the IESG (excerpts provided below).

With MD5/HMAC, I assumed something like this would be the case.

I'll have to go through the other Informational RFC references
I found in the LDAP (and dependent) specifications to see if
they also fall within this category.

	Kurt

----
IESG, 92-03-26, 3.6.
   Several Security related protocols reference the MD2 and MD5 Message
   Digest Algorithms.  These algorithms are documented in Internet
   Drafts that should be published as informational RFC's.

IESG, 96-09-19, 2.
    The IESG approved publication of IMAP/POP AUTHorize Extension for
    Simple Challenge/Response <draft-klensin-cram-02.txt> as a Proposed
    Standard. However, as it is dependent on HMAC-IP Authentication
    with Replay Prevention <draft-ietf-ipsec-hmac-md5-00.txt>, the
    announcement will not be sent until the hmac document is approved.

IESG, 96-11-21, 15.
    The IESG approved publication of HMAC: Keyed-Hashing for Message
    Authentication <draft-ietf-ipsec-hmac-md5-01.txt> as an
    Informational RFC. Steve to send announcement.
    
    With the approval of the above, the announcement of the IESG's
    approval of the Klensin-cram document may also be sent (approved in
    September).

---

From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:13:10 -0400

> (see sec 7) even if the standard is published as an info rfc

I believe this has been the reasoning behind acceptance of MD5 and
HMAC in the past.

> but just because somone says that a info RFC has a particular type of

It has traditionally been left to IESG (not just "someone") to decide 
whether a particular document (whether an Informational RFC or not) 
qualifies as an external standard according to section 7 of RFC 2026.

The only problem with this is that the IESG discussion on a particular
external standard can get repeated each time IESG is asked to review
a candidate for the IETF standards track which references such an 
external standard.  

Keith