Subject: Bake-off as trademark

From: "Henning G. Schulzrinne" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 15:14:45 -0500

I've been approached regarding the use of the (claimed-to-be)
trademarked term bake-off. It would be helpful if somebody can provide
credible evidence that this term has been used within the technical
community for many years. (In case you didn't know,
http://www.bakeoff.com/ shows the non-technical use....)

Thank you.
-- 
Henning Schulzrinne   http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs

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From: John Stracke <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 16:05:41 -0500

"Henning G. Schulzrinne" wrote:

> community for many years.

Well, there's RFC-1025, published in 1987; is 13 years enough? Also, it
refers to bakeoffs held as early as 1979, though it could be that they
were called something else at the time.

In any case, don't trademarks apply only within a single domain? There
isn't much overlap between the markets for baked goods and network
protocols.

--
/==============================================================\
|John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.|
|Chief Scientist |=============================================|
|eCal Corp.      |Please do not adjust your mind--reality is   |
[email-masked]|malfunctioning.                              |
\==============================================================/

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From: Tim Salo <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:03:21 -0600 (CST)

> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 15:14:45 -0500
> From: "Henning G. Schulzrinne" <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Bake-off as trademark
> 

RFC 1025, "TCP and IP Bake Off", J. Postel, September 1987.

-tjs

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From: James Aldridge <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:04:18 +0100

> http://www.bakeoff.com/ shows the non-technical use....)

See, for example, rfc-1025 (September 1987).

James

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 06:26:18 +0900

> There isn't much overlap between the markets for baked goods and network
> protocols.

the main intersection is in the doughnut area of high fat, too much sugar,
and too little nutritional value.

randy

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From: "Anthony Atkielski" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:28:27 +0100

> I've been approached regarding the use of the
> (claimed-to-be) trademarked term bake-off. It
> would be helpful if somebody can provide credible
> evidence that this term has been used within
> the technical community for many years.

Not necessary.  Trademark protection only extends to uses of a trademarked
term or mark that might elicit confusion with the protected use.  Thus,
Bake-Off might be protected with respect to use by companies in the same
business as Pillsbury, or in situations where use of the term might falsely
create the impression of a connection with or an endorsement by Pilsbury,
but in other contexts the protection does not apply.  Protection for coined
terms such as Bake-Off is much stronger than for ordinary terms (such as
Windows), however.

Actually, I don't recall hearing this term used in technical circles.  What
is it supposed to mean?

Did you know that Paramount Pictures has asserted trademark status for all
of the names of the characters in the original Star Trek series?  Only in
America!

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From: Herman Silbiger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 16:42:13 -0500

By whom, Pillsbury?

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From: "Ole J. Jacobsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:45:28 -0800 (PST)

Prior use as a generic term isn't always enough though.

In 1994 a competitor to Interop trademarked the generic word "shownet" as
a purely hostile move, forcing Interop to stop using it because it had not
previously been trademarked and the theory was that it would take to much
time and money to fight.

Thus, it is now called "InteropNet" and yes, it's heavily trademarked.

Ole

Ole J. Jacobsen 
Editor and Publisher
The Internet Protocol Journal
Office of the CTO, Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972
GSM: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: [email-masked]
URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj

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From: "Anthony Atkielski" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:25:44 +0100

> In 1994 a competitor to Interop trademarked the generic
> word "shownet" as a purely hostile move, forcing Interop
> to stop using it because it had not previously been
> trademarked and the theory was that it would take to much
> time and money to fight.

Whose theory was that?  At least in the United States, that makes little
sense.  In the U.S., you must show that you have been consistently using a
trademark and identifying it with your product or service in order to claim
proprietary status for it, and if you have not been actively using and
protecting it, or if someone was actively using it before you did, your
trademark is unlikely to stand.  Maybe Interop should have fought it.

Trademarks are not like patents or copyrights.  You must actively use and
protect a trademark, or it can lose its special status.  And you can only
register it _after_ you have established it as a trademark, not before (in
the U.S.--in Europe, you can register before you use it, which is kind of
bizarre and much more restrictive).

> Thus, it is now called "InteropNet" and yes, it's heavily

It's either a trademark or it's not.  There are no degrees of trademark
(other than registration).

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From: Masataka Ohta <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:26:44 +0859 ()

Henning;

Silly thread. I thought, through discussion on domain names, people
are get accostomed not to think US trademark is not THE trademark.

> trademarked term bake-off.

Trademarked in which country?

						Masataka Ohta

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From: "Michael Francois" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:13:31 -0800

the term 'Bake-Off' is trademarked by the Pillsbury Company, with the first
use I can see in 1950 ... it refers to:

Word Mark BAKE-OFF
Goods and Services IC 035. US 101. G & S: COOKING CONTESTS FOR THE PURPOSE
OF PROMOTING THE CREATION OF NEW RECIPES. FIRST USE: 19500000. FIRST USE IN
COMMERCE: 19500000
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 72354774
Filing Date March 23, 1970
Registration Number 0938249
Registration Date July 18, 1972
Owner (REGISTRANT) PILLSBURY COMPANY, THE CORPORATION DELAWARE PILLSBURY
CENTER 200 SOUTH SIXTH ST. MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA 55402
Attorney of Record RICHARD Q. RUSSETH
Prior Registrations 0871348
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19920325
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=toc&state=mn8lij.1.1&p_search=searchss&
p_L=50&Search+History=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA4=&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA4%24LD&p_
s_PARA3=bake+off&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA3%24COMB&p_op_PARA3=AND&a_default=searc
h&a_search=Submit+Query

i noticed this site crossed out 'bake off' and replaced it with 'cacheoff'
... wonder if pilssbury spoke to them ...

http://cacheoff.ircache.net/

searching at google came back with pages and pages of technical and other
'bake offs' ...

http://www.google.com/search?q=bake+off

getting international for a moment, i think in england the term 'bake off'
refers to the process of finishing a partially baked product at another
location ...

http://www.wrightspies.co.uk/bake-off.htm

anyway, i should obviously be spending my time on something else ... :)

michael

:-----Original Message-----
:From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
:Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 12:15 PM
:To: [email-masked]
:Subject: Bake-off as trademark
:
:
:I've been approached regarding the use of the (claimed-to-be)
:trademarked term bake-off. It would be helpful if somebody can provide
:credible evidence that this term has been used within the technical
:community for many years. (In case you didn't know,
:http://www.bakeoff.com/ shows the non-technical use....)
:
:Thank you.
:--
:Henning Schulzrinne   http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs
:
:

---

From: "Marcus Leech" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 16:00:33 -0500

> http://www.bakeoff.com/ shows the non-technical use....)
It wouldn't matter if we'd been using the term since only last Wednesday.
  Most trademark systems that I'm aware of share a doctrine of separation
  of intended audience.  So the word "bake-off" in the technical
  "market" of the Internet community is entirely seperate from the
  "market" of Pillsbury pastry products.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Marcus Leech                             Mail:   Dept 8M70, MS 012, FITZ
Advisor                                  Phone: (ESN) 393-9145  +1 613 763 9145
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