Subject: RE: 49th-IETF conf room planning

From: Matthew Goldman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:01:21 -0800

> From: Randall Gellens [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 4:42 PM
> To: Daniel Senie; Michael Richardson
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: 49th-IETF conf room planning
> 
> At 9:32 PM -0500 12/13/00, Daniel Senie wrote:
> 
> >  I am starting to wonder if we're going to have to hold the meetings
> >  primarily in Las Vegas.
> 
> I fervently hope not.  Las Vegas is the tobacco smoking capital of 
> the U.S. -- higher rates than anywhere else in the country, including 
> areas where they grow the stuff.  It is also very hard to find good 
> quality food (but is awash in cheap buffets).

Sorry, but I'd prefer Vegas vs. not being able to attend half of the
meetings I planned to  in San Diego simply because there was not enough
space. I was very dishardened by this, and hope the meeting planners are
able to plan for 3000+ attendees for future meetings.

The smoking is very bad, I agree. However, the IETF could absolutely
designate our meeting rooms as non-smoking. The ventilation systems are
outstanding (for obvious reasons), so any lingering smoke will be gone.

I wholeheatedly disagree with you regarding the food. Some of the finest
restaurants in the U.S. are located there. Sure, for lunch, we'd likely have
to eat at the local buffet or "semi fast" food shops unless special
arrangements are made by the IETF. After a week of lunches at the Sheraton
San Diego, though, a buffet would be no worse, IMO. But for dinner, the sky
is the limit. All prices ranges and all levels of quality. Not hard to find
any place to meet your needs.

I also disagree with you regarding hotel rates. Pre-negotiated block rates
for meetings are around the same price as we paid in San Diego for a similar
type of hotel (clearly, Vegas hotels are both much better than and much
worse than the Sheraton San Diego). The only time hotel rooms are extremely
high is for major expositions -- like Comdex, Consumer Electronics Show, etc
-- because those rooms are not booked as blocks. The hotels jack up the
prices for those weeks. I've been to Vegas on a non-convention week and got
a hotel room for $70/night vs. $180/night for the same room during Comdex.
It would be up to the IETF to negotiate for 2000-3000 rooms; that's a lot of
buying power. If they can't get reasonable rates, then we don't go there.

Having a locale where every attendee is able to have a seat -- comfortably
-- should be a primary concern. Vegas should be considered.

  Matthew Goldman
  World Wide Packets

---

From: Tripp Lilley <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 04:47:27 +0000 (/etc/localtime)

> buying power. If they can't get reasonable rates, then we don't go there.

Actually, geek conferences get the shaft in Vegas, because Vegas is wise
to the fact that geeks, knowing the odds, are much less likely to gamble. 
That's why Comdex, Interop, and so forth, get such high hotel rates. Now,
if we assured them that IETF stands for "International Eaters of Tasty
Food", or similar, we might get a break... And we can point to the
frequent mention of "many fine lunches and dinners" in _Exploring the
Internet_ as substantiation.

-- 
   Joy-Loving * Tripp Lilley  *  http://stargate.eheart.sg505.net/~tlilley/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:35:38 -0500

> able to plan for 3000+ attendees for future meetings.

for many people, having smoke anywhere near the meeting rooms
is as much of a barrier to participation as having the meeting
rooms full.

I'd far rather we raise the bar for participants (i.e. only admit
those who have done their homework) than make more room for 
non-participants.

Keith

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From: Michael Mealling <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:56:48 -0500

> is as much of a barrier to participation as having the meeting

I was out there this past summer at Caesers Palace for a Lunar
Development Conference and the only place I found smoke was
in the Casino itself. The conference rooms and actual hotel rooms
were smoke free and very nice (and cheap). In the Caesars Palace
Conference center the hallways were as large as the subdivided
Grand Ballroom in San Diego.  Caesars would barely even notice us....

> those who have done their homework) than make more room for 

This wouldn't have helped in the DOMREG/WHOIS BOF. I did an
informal survey and everyone in my part of the doorway was
someone who should have been there and who had read the documents.

Maybe the solution isn't Vegas but instead focusing on conference
centers in the city in question instead of strictly hotel only facilities.

-MM

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Mealling	|      Vote Libertarian!       | www.rwhois.net/michael
Sr. Research Engineer   |   www.ga.lp.org/gwinnett     | ICQ#:         14198821
Network Solutions	|          www.lp.org          |  [email-masked]

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From: "Henning G. Schulzrinne" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:36:24 -0500

> Internet_ as substantiation.

Or we explain to them that we're updating RFC 1750 to include roulette,
blackjack and one-armed bandits as sources of randomness. 

-- 
Henning Schulzrinne   http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs