Subject: Re: Bottom feeders

From: Jeffrey Altman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:24:13 EST

> 
> As for the rest ... yes, I think new people need to gather a few clues
> but it doesn't take many.  I guess the first clue is to realize how much
> of your time making real contributions takes.  If you're willing to do
> real work I think you're accepted immediately -- especially if your work
> is any good :-).  
> 

We also must keep in mind what we are talking about.  Does acceptance
in one working group in which you work equate to acceptance at the
IETF Meetings?  

For most newbies I would say 'no'.  I think it takes years before one
has enough familiarity with the activities of a dozen working groups
to feel a welcome at the week long IETF meeting.  I hope a newbie
comes to IETF for the first time because they are participating in one
working group on the mailing list.  (Those who are not participating in
anything but are coming to IETF because they think it is cooler than
Java One and charges a flat fee for tutorials will quickly find out
otherwise and are left out of this discussion.)  The newbie registers
for IETF but because we can't provide the scheduling for her/his
working group until the last minute must book a plane ticket, hotel
room, and time away from the office for the entire week.  Now the
newbie shows up willing to work in his/her working group of choice but
doesn't know what to do with the other 4.1 days that s/he is at the
IETF.  The end result is that they become lurkers in other working
groups.  

How many people look at the schedule and ask themselves "what should I
go sit in on"? when their working group(s) are not in session.  I
would say the answer is a much higher percentage of newbies and a much
lower percentage of long term attendees.  It took me quite a while to
learn to book a reschedulable return ticket so that I could leave as
soon as my work at IETF was done, instead of hanging out feeling
unwanted.  

Now, of course, I am involved in some many groups (including being a
chair) that I am literally forced to arrive early and leave late.  But
that has been three years in the making.

I know that in the past we have discouraged the notion of a per day
attendance fee because it is an administrative nightmare.  Requiring
additional staff to stand at each meeting room to screen badges, ...
But given how tight space has become perhaps a quick fix is to do the
following:

. encourage non-addicts to only attend the days their working groups
  are scheduled for by selling day passes.

. perform the scheduling of working group meetings further in advance
  so that people have the opportunity to get discount airline fares
  and room reservations only for the dates they need them.

This may enable us to continue using large hotels instead of moving to
convention centers.  Plus it would open the doors to more individuals
that at the moment can't afford to attend if they have to plan for
five days away from work plus airfare plus five nights of hotel.  We
might find that we have more attendees of higher quality with a
smaller space requirement.  Not to mention fewer lurkers and fewer
newbies feeling dejected.

 Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer      C-Kermit 7.1 Alpha available
 The Kermit Project @ Columbia University   includes Secure Telnet and FTP
 http://www.kermit-project.org/             using Kerberos, SRP, and 
 [email-masked]          OpenSSL.  SSH soon to follow.

---

From: Lloyd Wood <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:57:18 +0000 (GMT)

>   are scheduled for by selling day passes.

This doesn't go far enough in our enlightenened market economy.
Seats are currency. 

Give each registrant a number of tokens roughly equal to:

(number of seats in sessions x no. of sessions)/(no of registrants).

(okay, perhaps slightly more - a degree of overcrowding is
permissible, and no market is perfectly efficient. Or slightly less - 
you want the tokens to be valuable, after all.)

Entering a session costs a token, and is collected at the door. If you
want to get in to a session, you'll need a token. Let the market do
the rest in the bars and halls. Watch as token prices increase
throughout the week!

L.

watch as people sit in place for an entire day with picnic
lunches and catheters to save their precious tokens, too...

<[email-masked]>PGP<http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/>