Subject: Re: Denial of Service by Spamware?

From: Vernon Schryver <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:25:31 -0700 (MST)

> From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>

> ...
> > Anyone who has posted to the IETF list in the last week or two has
> > gotten literally dozens of "out of office notification" messages from
> > Microsoft Exchange clients. ...

> i'll see ya' and raise ya' o ne better.  mailing list owners get the
> appended from microsft corporate.  note the lack of information on which
> addressee's mail is bouncing, but it tells me to "Verify that the recipient
> address is correct."
> ...

I'll see that and raise yet again.  A few months ago, Novell was
sending similar, useless and uninformative delivery failure not to
list owners but to people who posted to the IETF list.

A list owner can often respond to such noise by removing all subscribers
with addresses at the idiot outfit.  That doesn't work when the listed
address at idiot outfit is actually for someone whose mail is being
forwarded from elsewhere (e.g. after changing jobs) and the idiot outfit's
bounces don't include headers with clues about the forwarding.  I've
seen that more than once in real life.

Although I know it's hopeless, I still say the right thing is for the
IETF to automatically unsubscribe anyone whose mail bears the tell tail
"X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service".   
By tolerating the malware and being "inclusive" of those who insist on
abusing the rest of us with it, the IETF is sanctioning it.

Vernon Schryver    [email-masked]

---

From: "Christopher Ambler" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:24:44 -0800

> abusing the rest of us with it, the IETF is sanctioning it.

I use Exchange, and it works fine for me. I have no settings that would
cause it to send out anything like what you've seen. If you rig it such
that my choice of mail software, which has done no harm to you,
causes my de-subscription to this list, you have discriminated against
my choice. Hardly fair.

If there's a specific technical gripe you have, say so. If it's a violation
of any RFC, I'd be pleased to personally call it to the attention of
someone in Exchange who can look at it. I worked for Microsoft
for 3 years, and know a couple of folks. No promises, I don't work
there any more, but I'd be happy to see if I can help.

If, on the other hand, you have a problem with a particular 
person's misconfiguration, or addition of 3rd party software (like
virus scanners) that are spewing garbage, why not take it up
with them.

Please do let me know if I'm missing something, other than
religious aversions to Microsoft.

Christopher