Subject: Re: I-D archives available anywhere?

From: Vernon Schryver <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:03:53 -0600 (MDT)

> From: [email-masked]

> ...
> > For comparing what changed between I-D releases, storing at least a few
> > revisions in old/ directory would help if you want to check for changes
> > with e.g. diff(1).
>
> The problem with this, of course, is that 'diff' is notoriously bad at
> distinguising between semantic and syntactic changes.

Moreover, the only people likely to care are even more likely to
have previous versions, as well as to have solved the `diff` hassles
using any of several common tactics.

Once you start keeping some previous versions of I-D's, you will
quickly need to keep all I-D's forever.

> ...
> And *NO*, this is *NOT* a 'we need to use XML/HTML/etc' - we haven't waited
> the requisite 6 months before re-starting that flame war. ;)

Let's keep our flame wars straight.  This is the scheduled start
of the latest episode of "I-D's Should Not Be Expired."

Vernon Schryver    [email-masked]

---

From: Ofer Inbar <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:51:21 -0400

> of the latest episode of "I-D's Should Not Be Expired."

Anyone for an FYI RFC, "IETF mailing list flame war glossary and schedule" ?

  --  Cos (Ofer Inbar)       --   [email-masked]  http://cos.polyamory.org/
  --  Exodus Communications  --  [email-masked]  http://www.exodus.net/
   "We all misuse the net for personal gain, one way or another."
       -- Larry Wall <[email-masked]>

---

From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:57:02 -0400

> of the latest episode of "I-D's Should Not Be Expired."

maybe we need a FAC (Frequently Argued Controversies) file for the
IETF list.  unlike an FAQ file which answers questions, an FAC file
would summarize each side of each argument. that way, we wouldn't
need to re-iterate those positions each time the topic came back
up - we could simply say "see [url]".

to reopen an old discussion someone would then have to argue convincingly
that there was a new angle or potential compromise not seen before,
or that the conditions had changed rendering part of the old argument 
invalid or moot.

Ketih

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From: grenville armitage <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:48:53 -0700

Keith Moore wrote:
	[..]
> or that the conditions had changed rendering part of the old argument

New Argument Translation considered harmful?

cheers,
gja

---

From: "Jiwoong Lee" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:44:31 +0900

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Moore" <[email-masked]>
To: "Vernon Schryver" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 3:57 AM
Subject: Re: I-D archives available anywhere?

> up - we could simply say "see [url]".

I quite agree. And your proposal will open new era of discussion and
argument culture. The FAC archive will help anyone who join the discussion a
little bit late and will help any student who studies the technical
background, and will help elaboration of discussion because people can
concentrate their focus on the heart of a problem.

Let's do so. ( and who ? :> )

Jiwoong

---

From: Peter Deutsch <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:38:37 -0700

> or that the conditions had changed rendering part of the old argument

And IANA would be tasked with issuing each argument with its own "port
number" like identifier, with the first 1k of these reserved for
arguments raised on the POISED list. The canonical "this argument is
already listed" argument would be given the "zeroth" argument in the
canonical list of arguments as it is presumably the argument that spawns
all arguments. 

Once we have this structure in place, self-referential arguments about
these arguments would in turn be escalated up in a never-ending cascade
of Cantor infinities, allowing us to have "all arguments that aren't
about arguments" like chains of dispute until we find this list
spontaniously rediscovering Godel's theorem, Turing's hyothesis and the
Enigma work of World War II. Heck, we keep this up and the IETF list
contents will become self-aware and start solving these problems on its
own. At that point, we can all log out and go home.

Finally, a light at the end of the tunnel. It'll be the first decent
night's sleep I've had since 1986...

				- peterd

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Deutsch                     work email:  [email-masked]
Director of Engineering
Edge Delivery Products
Content Networking Business Unit     private:  [email-masked]
Cisco Systems

   "My father warned me about the basement door.  Never open the 
    basement door he said.  There are terrible things behind the
    basement door, Emo.

   "Well I didn't listen to my father and one day when no one was
    looking I cautiously approached the basement door, carefully
    turned the old rusty handle and pushed the big door back with
    a rusty squeal.

   "It was surprising. It was shocking. I didn't know what to make
    of it. There was light and sun and trees and grass and birds...."

                                    - Emo Phillips

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