Subject: Re: Solving the right problems ...

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 00:10:19 EDT

Vinton,

I bow to your position.  We once had offices very close to each other.  
Remember MCI Mail? 

I am surprised you're back with MCI or whatever.  

But... 

Having quietly listened to what's being said, who's saying it, and where they 
are ...

I am reading email from some good thinkers, obviously good people, not quite 
open source gnomes, but close.   What's in it for me, or the world?  Obviously 
IETF picks some pretty nice places to meet.  And it is a pretty impressive 
org to work with to pretend to care about making a difference.  Hey, if you're 
in academia and want to eat, you'd better get some corporate funding.  Where do 
we go from here?  Eating good.  Unemployment bad.  

Well OK, what's best?  What's acceptable?  What keeps people employed? Bottom 
up?  Start with the itsy-bitsy, bit-by-bit lower level protocol bits and 
bytes and try to complete the Tower of Babel (which by the way I think was in 
Iraq), or take an Alan Turing type deep thinking approach that no employing 
company can or will afford?  (I wonder why he ate an apple spiced with cyanide?)  

OK.

Here's the point more specifically.  Considering the DEEP ISSUES people are 
beginning to discuss ( OK you do recognize them as deep issues right?) IETF is 
at a crossroad.  A "paradigm shift" from within is not possible.  Not given 
the funding employers.  Or the controlling employers.  Do you have the chutzpah 
or the intellectual purity to see the future beyond your next pay check?  Or, 
is this beyond the IETF, which I suspect is the case.  Or do we just wait for 
the Tower to complete and buy a farm in Montana?

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:30:05 -0700

> IETF picks some pretty nice places to meet.

you betcha!  this year you can come to minneapolis in november,
a major change as we have been meeting there in march.  the
hamster tunnels are a scenic marvel to keep in one's scrap-
book forever.  and you can have walleye cooked many ways, as
long as they're fried.

[ actually, food can be found in msp.  i just could not
  resist. ]

randy

---

From: shogunx <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 01:17:03 -0400 (EDT)

> we go from here?  Eating good.  Unemployment bad.

I eat quite well, have exactly 0 corporate funding, and have attended 2 of
the last 3 IETF meetings.  Thank you for playing.

sleekfreak pirate broadcast
world tour 2002-3
live from the pirate hideout
http://sleekfreak.ath.cx:81/

---

From: Henry Sinnreich <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 07:37:11 -0500

Is the sender anonymous or could we know name and affiliation?

Thanks,

Henry Sinnreich

MCI

  _____  

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
[email-masked]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:10 PM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Solving the right problems ...

Vinton,

But... 

Having quietly listened to what's being said, who's saying it, and where
they are ...

I am reading email from some good thinkers, obviously good people, not quite
open source gnomes, but close.   What's in it for me, or the world?
Obviously IETF picks some pretty nice places to meet.  And it is a pretty
impressive org to work with to pretend to care about making a difference.
Hey, if you're in academia and want to eat, you'd better get some corporate
funding.  Where do we go from here?  Eating good.  Unemployment bad.  

Well OK, what's best?  What's acceptable?  What keeps people employed?
Bottom up?  Start with the itsy-bitsy, bit-by-bit lower level protocol bits
and bytes and try to complete the Tower of Babel (which by the way I think
was in Iraq), or take an Alan Turing type deep thinking approach that no
employing company can or will afford?  (I wonder why he ate an apple spiced
with cyanide?)  

OK.

Here's the point more specifically.  Considering the DEEP ISSUES people are
beginning to discuss ( OK you do recognize them as deep issues right?) IETF
is at a crossroad.  A "paradigm shift" from within is not possible.  Not
given the funding employers.  Or the controlling employers.  Do you have the
chutzpah or the intellectual purity to see the future beyond your next pay
check?  Or, is this beyond the IETF, which I suspect is the case.  Or do we
just wait for the Tower to complete and buy a farm in Montana?

---

From: Henry Sinnreich <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 07:54:04 -0500

Thanks,
 
Henry Sinnreich
MCI
 
________________________________________
 
Vinton,

 
But... 

 
Well OK, what's best?  What's acceptable?  What keeps people
employed? Bottom up?  Start with the itsy-bitsy, bit-by-bit lower level
protocol bits and bytes and try to complete the Tower of Babel (which by the
way I think was in Iraq), or take an Alan Turing type deep thinking approach
that no employing company can or will afford?  (I wonder why he ate an apple
spiced with cyanide?)  
 
OK.