Subject: respect privacy please !

From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:24:19 +0200

Hi,

I've already raised this some time ago, same as other people did, but I still see my name being published, w/o my consent, in the list of attendees.

This is not acceptable, we should have the option to choose if we want to have our name published or not when we do the registration.

I will also like to get some response about the time frame to get the IETF sites IPv6-enabled. If there is any problem for doing that, I already volunteered to host a mirror.

Regards,
Jordi

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---

From: "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:45:44 -0700

> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> I've already raised this some time ago, same as other
> people did, but I still see my name being published,
> w/o my consent, in the list of attendees.

Besides the fact that it is done without your consent, is there
something fundamentally wrong with it in your view? I don't care if the
IETF lists my name, is there a reason I should?

> This is not acceptable, we should have the option to
> choose if we want to have our name published or not
> when we do the registration.

It appears this will not happen.

Michel.

---

From: "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:45:44 -0700

Michel.

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:04:05 -0400

--On Friday, 21 May, 2004 15:55 +0100 Tim Chown 
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 12:05:00AM +1000, grenville armitage
> wrote:
>>
>> This could be solved by the IETF insisting that consent is
>> required before attendance. I, like John, do not believe it
>> is acceptable for the IETF meetings to be populated by
>> anonymous attendees.
>
> The issue is someone knowing where I am for a week, in advance.
>
> Harald's suggestion of releasing the list post-event is an
> improvement...

Hmm.  Being paranoid about folks who arrive or depart in black 
helicopters (despite being accused in the past of being one of 
that group), post-meeting feels too late to me.   But, other 
than whatever additional burdens it adds for the Secretariat, I 
can see almost no objection to keeping the list confidential 
until Sunday afternoon or early Monday of the meeting week.

However, before we say "that is a wonderful idea" (or not), 
let's remember the substance of several of the "IETF 
administration" notes and documents that have been circulated in 
the last several months.  If I understand those materials and 
discussions correctly, the Secretariat is stretched pretty thin, 
there are no spare dollars floating around, few if any of us are 
anxious to see increased meeting fees, and I gather that almost 
every request for something new involves a decision about what 
doesn't get done instead.  Even when there has been a perception 
of lots of resources, the Secretariat has, for as long as I can 
remember, been flat-out during the few days before and after an 
IETF meeting starts.  So "post Sunday afternoon" is possibly 
unworkable in practice unless it can be turned over to some 
automated process... and I don't know if the database structure 
lends itself to that without considerable work.

Moreover, I've several times noticed a significant advantage of 
having _my_ name and payment status listed -- it provides an 
easy way for me to check on whether I've registered and paid or 
whether I let it fall through the cracks.  So, for purely 
pragmatic reasons, I'd hate to see the advanced registration 
list taken down unless there is an easy and automated way for me 
to inquire as to whether or not I'm correctly registered. Or the 
_advanced_ registration list could be made opt-out until Sunday, 
and then posted with all names listed.  But either probably 
implies more Secretariat work, even if we don't care much about 
the security (authenticity) of the query in the former case.

So, how important is this, really?  For most of the regular 
attendees, someone wanting to know that you will be away for a 
week and when needs only to determine when an IETF meeting is 
being held.  That isn't 100% reliable, of course, but, because 
you can register (and even pay) and then not come (and I gather 
a significant number of people do so every time), neither is the 
current list.

Speaking for myself only, of course.

best,
    john

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:04:05 -0400

best,
    john

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:27:09 -0700

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: respect privacy please !
> From: [email-masked]
> Date: Fri, May 21, 2004 8:31 am
> To: "Tim Chown" <[email-masked]>
> Cc: [email-masked]
> 
> > Maybe I'm using an alias... I could be Jim Fleming :)
> 
> Waving my patent-pending kook-o-meter over your email and Jim's
> produces
> different characteristic patterns... so I doubt it. ;)

Boy I miss Jim F. - The best part about a good troll is you never know when they will raise their ugly head
again in a different disguise

Bill

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:27:09 -0700

Bill

---

From: "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:51:12 -0700

> Tim Chown wrote:

I'm sure Osama would care about that, but do you mind explaining why you
do? Hitmen are going to hunt you down? If there is a bounty on your
head, consider allowing a fellow IETFer to get it instead of an
anonymous sniper :-)

Michel.

---

From: "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:51:12 -0700

Michel.

---

From: "Thomas J. Hruska" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:21:59 -0400

>head, consider allowing a fellow IETFer to get it instead of an

Why are bounties always for people's heads?  I mean, why can't there be a
bounty on someone's pinky toe?  The head is this big, bloated target, but
the pinky toe is far more challenging.  Anyone can snipe someone's head,
but it takes real aim to shoot someone else in the foot.

Hope this doesn't help!

          Thomas J. Hruska -- [email-masked]
Shining Light Productions -- "Meeting the needs of fellow programmers"
                     http://www.slproweb.com/

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  Try Nuclear Vision today!

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  Announcing Nuclear Vision v2.0:
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  capabilities.

---

From: "Christian Huitema" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:22:15 -0700

> Tim Chown wrote:
> 	[..]
> > But there's no reason the list should be published in advance.

Well, actually there is a reason. Suppose that a particular company
decides to "stuff the room" and send a large number of participant to
the meeting. There is a big difference between making the behavior
public before the meeting and after.

-- Christian Huitema

---

From: "Christian Huitema" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:22:15 -0700

-- Christian Huitema

---

From: "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:36:54 -0700

> grenville armitage wrote:
> My sole observation is that the threat model postulated for
> yanking the pre-meeting publication seem insufficiently analysed.

Besides, yanking it would be useless. If one wants to know if Joe
Sixpack is going to attend the meeting a week in advance, here are a few
tricks:

1. Email Joe Sixpack:
"Dear Joe,
I am Jane Doe from {vendor|organization}, I have read your excellent
comments about draft-ietf-whatever and I would like to know if you could
find a few minutes in your busy schedule to discuss the issue in person
at the San Diego meeting."

2. Call the meeting hotel and a few ones around:
"Hi, my name is Joe Sixpack and I just wanted to verify that you have a
reservation for me on August 1 2004".

3. Call the IETF secretariat:
"Hi, my name is Joe Sixpack, I pre-registered but I did not get any
confirmation email. Did the computer eat my registration?"

4. Call Joe Sixpack:
"Good morning Mr Sixpack, this is the Sheraton San Diego Hotel & Marina.
We have two reservations in your name, one starting on Saturday July 31
and another one starting on Sunday August 1. Which one is correct
please?"

Etc....

I still have to see _one_ reason why the registration list represents a
threat. I agree that the disclaimer is a good idea though.

Michel.

---

From: "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:36:54 -0700

1. Email Joe Sixpack:
"Dear Joe,

4. Call Joe Sixpack:

Etc....

Michel.