Subject: RE: text suggested by ADs

From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:18:08 -0700

> FWIW, this seems fairly easy to implement even now, with
> (1) The introduction of the tracker that records comments so 
> that they can be accessed in a public manner. (2) The 
> practise where DISCUSS comment resolution is brought back to 
> the WG list (unless the comments are obvious and non- 
> controversial enough to be simply put in by the editor).

You miss out (3) TELL PEOPLE ABOUT THE TRACKER THAT EXISTS.

There is actually a tracker:
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi

Once again we come back to one of the core problems with the IETF
processes being a complete lack of information on the Web site.

Many of the issues that have been debated at exhaustive length in
NEWTRACK could have been solved by simply putting the necessary
information on the web site. For example finding out even a simple
matter such as the status of an RFC is not possible by using the Web
site unless you happen to know special information such as the fact that
this is in periodically issued RFCs with 00 numbers.

This information is on the 'Working Group Chairs' page, not the 'ID
authors' page or more usefully the Internet drafts page. 

The current IETF Web site appears to have been written by someone whose
ideal of user documentation is the UNIX man pages. It does not appear to
have changed at all since the first time I saw it in fact. 

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From: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:51:13 +0300

Hi Phillip,

>authors' page or more usefully the Internet drafts page. 
The I-D tracker *is* actually on the Internet drafts page
(I think this was a recent change):

  http://www.ietf.org/ID.html

But in general, yes, we could use more information and
easier availability. I confess that I don't even remember where
the RFC status page is. But there's been many improvements
of this type lately, like what the tools team is working on now that
allows you to get a better view of the overall ID/RFC status in
a working from single page etc. See e.g. http://tools.ietf.org/wg/radext/

>ideal of user documentation is the UNIX man pages.
>
I don't understand -- what could ever be better than a UNIX
man page? ;-)

--Jari

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From: Jeffrey Hutzelman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:58:17 -0400

>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi

Which has been linked to from the internet-drafts page for quite some time 
now.  It's also been mentioned in IETF plenaries and in numerous other 
forums.  I certainly knew about it well before becoming a WG chair.

> For example finding out even a simple

If you mean "where in the RFC-Editor queue is my document", that 
information is available on the RFC-Editor's web site, and has been for 
quite some time now.

If you mean "what is the standards status of RFCxxxx; what updates or 
obsoletes it, etc", that information is in the rfc-index.txt file, and has 
been for as long as I can remember.

I will agree with you that the organization of www.ietf.org leaves 
something to be desired.  But the information is available.

-- Jeff