Subject: Intermediate Drafts of network layer protocols

From: Syed Farooq Ahmed <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 03:18:10 -0400 (EDT)

hello,

Can i get intermediate drafts of any standard network layer protocol like IPv4 or IPv6. I am studying how protocols are designed and the features added over time etc.

Normally, those drafts are removed and not found on the internet, only the last complete RFC remains.

I would be thankful if any one of you can send me such drafts (documents).

Regards,

-

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 10:14:08 +0200

Unfortunately, as you will see by looking at any current
Internet Draft, these drafts are automatically withdrawn after
6 months (or as soon as they are updatded), so you won't find old
ones on the ietf.org site. You may find them on some unofficial
sites.

If you look at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ipv6-charter.html
you will find all the *current* IPv6 drafts and pointers to some of
the obsolete IPv6 RFCs, as well as the current ones.

    Brian

Syed Farooq Ahmed wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

---

From: "Marshall Eubanks" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:03:32 -0400

Hello;

While as far as I know there is no central repository, I have always been able to find 
old (intermediate) drafts in the last 5 years by going to

- the IETF proceedings (google with site:ietf.org and the draft name, including the version)
- the mirror sites for drafts and
- a general google search 

(in that order). Be aware that draft names generally change (they start as a individual 
draft and change names when they become a working group draft), and sometimes drafts merge.

If all else fails, you can email the draft authors or the WG mailing list
(which I have never had to do, but you might have to if you go back in time).

So, you can almost certainly track "any" draft. Whether you can track "every"
draft you care about will depend on your time and resources.

Regards
Marshall Eubanks

On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 03:18:10 -0400 (EDT)
 Syed Farooq Ahmed <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> hello,
> 
> Can i get intermediate drafts of any standard network layer protocol like IPv4 or IPv6. I am
> studying how protocols are designed and the features added over time etc.
>

---

From: Carl Malamud <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 06:19:25 -0700 (PDT)

Hi -

I think a research request to study how protocols are designed and features
added over time deserves a more accurate answer than an official
incantation of "they're gone."

Try this site:
   http://www.watersprings.org/
   
You'll find all drafts and diff's between them.

Regards,

Carl

---

From: Stewart Bryant <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 10:42:57 +0100

> You'll find all drafts and diff's between them.

That will only give you a part of the story. You also need
the WG emails, the WG proceedings and details of the current
external environment.

Then to understand the change from last draft to RFC you need the
telechat minutes and emails between the AD and editors.

To complete the picture you also need a fair number of private emails
and the recollections of a numbers of flys that were on the walls of
the the IETF corridors and surrounding restaurants.

Regards

Stewart

---

From: "Elwyn davies" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:55:13 +0100

As I had already written to the original enquirer privately, I agree that
the research needs the 'design diary' aspects as well as the output
snapshots.

The lack of a permanent archive for some of the mailing lists will be a
problem for historians and others looking back on the IETF process. Personal
interviews would be the only way of getting any idea of the corridor
discussions.

In trying to assist Syed Farooq Ahmed, I tried to access the old IPng
mailing list that was hosted on playground.sun.com: although there is still
an IPv6/IPng page there, the mailing list archives are not accessible in
their original location.

I don't know whether the old IPng mailing list was mirrored onto the IETF
site as 'history' for the new IPv6 list when the IPng mailing list closed
two years or so ago, and the current archive interface makes it essentially
impossible to check (just how many 'Next Page' clicks do you need to retreat
about 6000 messages?).

A little research showed that the MARC (Mailing listARChive) at
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/ has the sequence back to 1995 in a more
accessible form, but even that misses the earliest exchanges.

Maybe we need to pay a bit more attention to our history!

Regards,
Elwyn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
> Stewart Bryant
> Sent: 08 April 2005 10:43
> To: Carl Malamud
> Cc: Syed Farooq Ahmed; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: Intermediate Drafts of network layer protocols
> 
> 
> 
> Carl Malamud wrote:
> > Hi -
> >
> >>>Can i get intermediate drafts of any standard network layer protocol
> like IPv4 or IPv6. I am studying how protocols are designed and the
> features added over time etc.
> >>>

---

From: Joe Touch <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 08:53:11 -0700

> incantation of "they're gone."

Is this more "official":

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
   and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
   time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
   material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."

> You'll find all drafts and diff's between them.

You'll find copyright violations too. There are copies of drafts that
predate changes to I-D copyright; further, though the IETF reserves the
right to post expired drafts under current rules, I'm not aware that
watersprings.org has acquired permission from the IETF to do so.

Joe