Subject: Re: put http://tools.ietf.org/ on the IETF website

From: Bruce Lilly <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:39:18 -0400

>  Date: 2005-06-15 10:20
>  From: wayne <[email-masked]>

> In <[email-masked]> "Lucy E. Lynch" <[email-masked]> writes:
> 
> > Many of the issues related to WG progress can be managed using the
> > excellent web tools provided at tools.ietf.org - see for example:
> > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/
> 
> This link should be put on the font page of the IETF website.
> 
> Google shows no links to these tools from the IETF website, and only
> one link on the entire Internet:
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=link%3Atools.ietf.org%2F&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Tools+IETF&num=100&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&c2coff=1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=ietf.org&safe=images
returns 118,000 hits.

Your query is not looking at "the IETF website", it is looking at only
a specific other site.

There is a link of the IETF home page to http://edu.ietf.org/
(Educational Materials), and that page has a link to
http://edu.ietf.org/tools (Tools for IETF).  Though that's rather
limited in scope and not the first place one is likely to look.
It is also worth noting that the cleverly concealed link at the upper
left corner of the IETF home page takes one to a search engine, but
that a search there for "tools" yields nothing.

Note that "tools.ietf.org" is:

tools.ietf.org  nameserver = shiraz.levkowetz.com.
tools.ietf.org  nameserver = eikenes.alvestrand.no.
tools.ietf.org  nameserver = dns1.shlang.com.
tools.ietf.org
        origin = shiraz.levkowetz.com
        mail addr = hostmaster.tools.ietf.org
        serial = 2005053001
        refresh = 7200
        retry = 3600
        expire = 1209600
        minimum = 14400
Name:   tools.ietf.org
Address: 81.224.201.50
tools.ietf.org  mail exchanger = 10 tools.ietf.org.

Authoritative answers can be found from:
tools.ietf.org  nameserver = shiraz.levkowetz.com.
tools.ietf.org  nameserver = eikenes.alvestrand.no.
tools.ietf.org  nameserver = dns1.shlang.com.
eikenes.alvestrand.no   internet address = 158.38.152.233

> > Getting people to use the tools is a seperate issue. Just another mash
> > note from a tools.ietf.org fan...
> 
> It is hard to get people to use tools when they don't know they exist
> and are very hard to find.

The specific tools pointed to by Lucy are for WG use, and
I suspect that these are covered in WG Chair training.

As for other tools, the ID-Checklist specifically mentions
several tools of use to draft authors, and several places point
to the ID-Checklist.

I agree that the IETF web site could certainly use some improvement,
however there are plenty of ways to find tools (indeed the ID-Checklist
virtually requires use of some tools, e.g. ABNF validators).

_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

---

From: wayne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:06:18 -0500

> Your query is not looking at "the IETF website", it is looking at only

Yes, your search returns many hits, but none of those are *links*.  In
order for search engines like google to find the IETF tools webpage,
there needs to by links, not just text references.  Of course, links
are also easier for people to follow.  I guess I wasn't very clear
abou the point I was trying to make.

> [dns info about tools.ietf.org deleted]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to point out
with this info.  It is probably obvious, but not to me.  Could you
please elaborate?

> I suspect that these are covered in WG Chair training.

maybe, but I think they are useful for others too.

-wayne