Subject: RE: IETF 63, visa information

From: "Liqiang\(Larry\) Zhu" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:45:31 -0700

Gene, this is great. Can you please ask the French Embassy to extend the
same offer to citizens of PRC and India please? I think we have a lot of
those from these two countries who want to attend IETF63.

Thanks,

-- larry

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Gaines [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 2:36 PM
To: Liqiang(Larry) Zhu
Cc: Vijay Devarapalli; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: IETF 63, visa information

Liqiang(Larry) Zhu wrote:

>Is it possible to get a waiver for the visa requirements? I think for
>IETF61 the visa was waived for all IETF goers.
>
For IETF61 in Korea, we did not get a waiver.  I obtained a letter from
the Korean Embassy (in English and Korean) explaining IETF61 was a
scientific meeting and a visa is not required for those meeting the
below conditions.

A visa was NOT required for U.S. citizens traveling to Korea providing:

  1)  they were a U.S. citizen and carried a valid U.S. passport,
  2)  were traveling to Korea for the purpose of attending a recognized
           scientific meeting (IETF meetings qualify) and/or tourism,
  3)  would be doing no business or attending business meetings in
Korea,
  4)  would not be acting as an official of the U.S. Government, and
  5)  would be in the country for less than 90 days.

The French Embassy in Washington DC confirmed to me this afternoon that
the same conditions apply for IETF63 in Paris.

That is, U.S. citizens with a valid U.S. passport DO NOT NEED A VISA
to attend IETF63 in Paris (a scientific meeting) providing they do not
also conduct business and stay for less than 90 days.

As with IETF61, it would be good to get a blanket letter from the French
Embassy confirming that IETF63 qualifies for this status.  A copy can be
carried by each traveler.

Visa requirement for citizens of other countries are all different.

Gene Gaines

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vijay Devarapalli [mailto:[email-masked]] 
>Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:43 AM
>To: Liqiang(Larry) Zhu
>Cc: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: IETF 63, visa information
>
>IETF provides you with a letter of invitation that you could use
>to get a visa.
>
>http://www.ietf.org/meetings/invite_letter.html
>
>to get a visa, you have to go to the nearest French Consulate.
>France has started issuing "biometric visas", which requires you
>to apply in person. you cant mail the application in. more
>information at
>http://www.consulfrance-sanfrancisco.org/english/visa/en_vs_index.html
>
>Vijay
>
>Liqiang(Larry) Zhu wrote:
>  
>
>>I am not sure if this is the proper forum for how to get visa in order
>>to go to IETF63. 
>>
>>Is there any assistance provided by IETF? 
>>
>>
>>I also assume it is especially difficult to get the visa for folks who
>>are not US citizens.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ietf mailing list
>>[email-masked]
>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
>>    
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ietf mailing list
>[email-masked]
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
>
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

---

From: Gene Gaines <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:54:57 -0400

>those from these two countries who want to attend IETF63.
I will speak with the IETF Secretariat people Monday morning and we will
attempt to obtain a definitive statement for as many countries as possible,
will inform this list quickly as to outcome.

Gene Gaines

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:40:55 +0200

As jfc kindly pointed out, the information on who needs a visa
is conveniently available (in English, Spanish and French)
at http://www.diplomatie.fr/venir/visas/

If a visa is needed, that site leads to a PDF file
of the form and contact details for the relevant consulates.

As others have pointed out, there is a standard way to get
an invitation letter if needed, at
http://www.ietf.org/meetings/invite_letter.html

I strongly advise against waiting for a hypothetical
waiver. If the above site says you need a visa, I advise
applying for it immediately. French bureaucrats are not
known for flexibility.

    Brian

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Brian E Carpenter
IETF Chair
Distinguished Engineer, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM

---

From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 01:42:36 +0200

>applying for it immediately. French bureaucrats are not

If flexibility means to non equally treat someone they will probably be 
very unflexible. We are quite democratic and found of individual rights 
(this is why I am genuinely shocked by the HB issue). But the flexibility 
is built in: be carefull at indicating "business trip". Which means that 
you come and visit. Not "scientific", "engineer", etc. which would be 
understood as coming and working.

All the best. They say that July will be hoter than avergare, but August 
should be little fresher than average.
jfc

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:43:56 +0200

JFC (Jefsey) Morfin wrote:
> (this is why I am genuinely shocked by the HB issue). But the 
> flexibility is built in: be carefull at indicating "business trip". 
> Which means that you come and visit. Not "scientific", "engineer", etc. 
> which would be understood as coming and working.

Yes, and I checked that if you enter US citizen with US residence, for
a visit of less than 3 months, for professional/business trip, it
correctly says no visa required. If you don't meet that profile,
please check for yourself.

     Brian

---

From: Alexey Melnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:14:07 +0100

> applying for it immediately. French bureaucrats are not

Hopefully the following information about getting Schengen visa in UK 
would be useful to others:
I've recently applies for Schengen visa to attend IETF in Paris. The 
invitation letter from France Telecom worked like magic.
The only issue with getting visa is how much in advance this has to be 
done. French Consulate in London uses web booking system (alternatively 
people can phone, paying £1 a minute), which can only book visa 
appointments 4-5 weeks in advance. The waiting time in summer can be 
even worse, but check yourselves.

Getting a letter of invitation was very straightforward once I've paid 
the IETF attendance fee. I've got my letter by fax and I also got it in 
mail shortly after.

Regards,

Alexey Melnikov
__________________________________________
Isode Mbox Message Store developer

Isode Limited, http://www.isode.com

IETF standard related pages:
http://www.melnikov.ca/mel/devel/Links.html

Personal Home Page: http://www.melnikov.ca
__________________________________________

---

From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:20:43 +0200

>would be useful to others:

Some information here about "Schengen visa". Schengen is a small city in 
Luxembourg where was signed a convention creating the "Schengen space". 
This is NOT a EU convention: all the European countries are not members of 
it, and non-European countries can join the Schengen Space  (as Iceland and 
Norway do. Mr. Alvestrand will learn this way his own country is not so 
poor a country as he think). Switzerland just did.

This works the following way (inquire for confirmation and details to your 
nearest Consulate of a Schengen State). The Shengen site is: 
http://www.eurovisa.info/

- the participant States exchange administrative information on the Visa 
they deliver (the convention is mainly a common database)
- they waive the need of a national Visa for people coming from a Schengen 
country. The
- they will a Visa for a person who has been refused by another country 
(hence the necessary delay)
- the Visa must be asked to the State of the _main_ destination of travel.

The application form is under: 
http://www.eurovisa.info/Forms/pdf/SchengenVisaApplicaion_En.pdf . In 
applying for a French Visa you will get it probably more simply (they can 
look and certify your documents, check problems with you, etc.). This is 
what they will enter in the database.

For the IETF meeting, you cannot use a letter of France Telecom and apply 
to an other country consulate. However if you have a mixed travel (for 
example visiting familly in Belgium, with an address and possibly a letter, 
and poping in Paris for the IETF, you can apply for a Belgium Visa).

This is a full confirmation that European countries and France (who 
initiated the Schengen convention with Benelux countries) are not motivated 
in their Visa policy as described by Mr. Alvestrand (such a proposition is 
even, with the support of a quite universal consensus, a serious legal 
offense against our integration policy and social peace). For example, Mr. 
Alvestrand, as a Norwegian citizen, can freely come in Paris as if he was 
going to Bergen or Stavenger. However some are very concerned by the nice 
Nowegian students invasion we a have every summer.

Don't worry you are welcome ! I suppose everyone will work hard to address 
the possible problems you could meet. There is no magic :-), only equal 
efficiency for all, who ever you are. The only "magic" is, if you have a 
problem, not to try to hide it: explain it and show your good faith. If it 
is something that could be done for others, I am prety sure it will be done 
for you.

jfc

>appointments 4-5 weeks in advance. The waiting time in summer can be even 
>worse, but check yourselves.
>
>Getting a letter of invitation was very straightforward once I've paid the 
>IETF attendance fee. I've got my letter by fax and I also got it in mail 
>shortly after.
>
>Regards,
>
>Alexey Melnikov