Subject: A Complaint to the IETF and IESG (was Re: Please change the Subject: when you change the subject [Re: Sarcarm and intimidation])

From: Dean Anderson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 15:16:40 -0400 (EDT)

I haven't changed the subject. The correct subject is "sarcasm and
intimidation". I have just provided specific examples of "sarcasm and
intimidation" that have happened while working on spam issues for the
IETF. Those specific exmaples fall under the topic of the subject header.
Your complaint about subject change is frivolous.

Nor am I playing rhetorical games with Noel Chiappa. I asked him a direct,
relevant, specific question, and he didn't answer it. Instead he gave me a
sarcastic, frivolous, and irrelevant response.  The original story Chiappa
gave about "Parry meets the Doctor" is often cited to mean: "Did I give
you the impression I cared about your feelings?", which means that they
don't care what you think. This is sarcasm, and is exactly what
Hallam-Baker started to complain about under the topic "sarcasm and
intimidation".

The recent behavior by Carpenter and Chiappa has rather proved the point
by Hallam-Baker, myself, and others.  The frivolous complaints about
message topic give the impression of intimidation. And I feel intimidated
by the Chair's insistence on squelching the topic of "sarcasm and
intimidation" and specifically any examples of sarcasm and intimidation
involving IETF work on spam.  So do others.  This is inappropriate
behavior by the current Chair, and by former IESG members.

It is rather amazing that someone (a former IESG Member!)  would be so
brazen as to be sarcastic during a complaint about sarcasm and
intimidation.  Plainly, they seem to feel a right to be sarcastic. But I
find no such right in the IETF or ISOC Code of Conduct, nor in the Mission
Statement of the IETF.  Just the opposite: One is expected to be courteous
and respectful, and sarcasm is neither courteous nor respectful.

A complaint on this inappropriate behavior is hereby brought to the
attention of the IESG.

Dean Anderson
President
Av8 Internet, Inc

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

> ...
> > Does this mean that you think the IETF should disband the ASRG, drop all
> > current I-D's relating to spam, and quit working on spam issues?  
> 
> What I think is that if you change the subject, you should change
> the Subject:, so that people who might be interested in "Sarcarm
> and intimidation" but aren't interested in "Spam" don't waste their
> time.
> 
>     Brian
> 
> 
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> 

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