Subject: BCPs and STDs

From: Edward Lewis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:48:33 -0400

I was trying to find links from the www.ietf.org and 
www.rfc-editor.org pages that lead to indexes of BCPs and STDs.  I 
couldn't find any links.  If I know the RFC number I can find them 
via a few methods, and I am aware of search engines.

It's a lot easier, when all you might have is a hand held device, to 
be able to click though links to see even just the title of a 
document when someone asks "what do you think of BCP 58?"

Is there a document that describes how an RFC is admitted to the 
BCP/STD index?  I am not looking for a discussion on this list, just 
a reference.  Who has "ownership" of the list, is it part of the RFC 
editor function?
-- 
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Edward Lewis                                                +1-571-434-5468
NeuStar

If you knew what I was thinking, you'd understand what I was saying.

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From: Joe Abley <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:08:50 -0400

On 17-Aug-2005, at 10:48, Edward Lewis wrote:

> It's a lot easier, when all you might have is a hand held device,  
> to be able to click though links to see even just the title of a  

<http://www.google.com/search?q=BCP+58> works for me :-)

> BCP/STD index?

RFC 2026?

Joe

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From: Frank Ellermann <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:11:03 +0200

Edward Lewis wrote:

> It's a lot easier, when all you might have is a hand held
> device, to be able to click though links to see even just
> the title of a document when someone asks "what do you think
> of BCP 58?"

Roll your own interface to the "RfC search", I've done that
for RfCs, example: <http://purl.net/net/rfc/20>

The resulting link is monstrous, but does what I want:

http://www.rfc-editor.org/cgi-bin/rfcsearch.pl?opt=number&num=5&filefmt=txt&search_doc=search_rfc&abstract=abson&keywords=keyon&format=ftp&searchwords=20

For BCP 20 replace "search_rfc" by "search_bcp", similar for
FYI 20 or STD 20.  I test it only for BCP:

http://www.rfc-editor.org/cgi-bin/rfcsearch.pl?opt=number&num=5&filefmt=txt&search_doc=search_bcp&abstract=abson&keywords=keyon&format=ftp&searchwords=20

Works.  For your other questions test it with BCP 9 / RFC 2026.

                       Bye, Frank

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From: Edward Lewis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:26:12 -0400

I guess I should say that wouldn't it be more professional if it were 
easier to navigate to IETF document from the IETF web pages?

As someone who's been around a while, it's hard to "on a dime" find a 
reference without having to build up my own repository.  As I have 
changed employers over the years I have left behind old repositories 
on the equipment I no longer am permitted to use.

I can imagine it's even harder for newcomers to navigate.

What can't:  http://www.ietf.org/documents/bcp/bcp102.txt be all that 
is needed, with links to Documents and then BCP be plainly visible on 
the web site?

BTW, thanks to the references to 2026.  I had forgotten there was 
more than than just the RFC categories and standards track levels.
-- 
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Edward Lewis                                                +1-571-434-5468
NeuStar

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From: Frank Ellermann <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:24:52 +0200

Edward Lewis wrote:
 
> wouldn't it be more professional if it were easier to
> navigate to IETF document from the IETF web pages?

It's one of these "if you know how it's easy" things,

The main page has a search form, upper left corner, the
first thing you see on www.ietf.org, enter "BCP 58",
click "go", and from the familiar Google results pick
the second hit RfC 3233, ready.

*Or* go to the bottom of the the IETF home page, use the
"RfC editor" link, then use "RfC search", enter "58" in
the search form, check the radio buttons for BCP and
"entire word", click search, use the shown link, ready.

> What can't:  http://www.ietf.org/documents/bcp/bcp102.txt
> be all that is needed, with links to Documents and then
> BCP be plainly visible on the web site

Fifth Google hit: <http://www.apps.ietf.org/rfc/bcplist.html>

                          Bye, Frank

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:56:29 +0200

Ed,

The IETF's publisher is the RFC Editor, so they maintain search
pages etc. at http://www.rfc-editor.org

Try http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html for generic search
Try http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcxx00.html for document categories

Oh, and for documents awaiting RFC publication, try
http://rtg.ietf.org:8080/Test/parking

[More generally: yes, the IETF web site needs a general
clean up for useability and organization. The Tools team has
this on their list.]

     Brian

Edward Lewis wrote:
> changed employers over the years I have left behind old repositories on 
> the equipment I no longer am permitted to use.
> 
> What can't:  http://www.ietf.org/documents/bcp/bcp102.txt be all that is 
> needed, with links to Documents and then BCP be plainly visible on the 
> web site?
> 
> BTW, thanks to the references to 2026.  I had forgotten there was more 
> than than just the RFC categories and standards track levels.

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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:58:42 +0200

> "entire word", click search, use the shown link, ready.

Or use http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcxx00.html

I agree that it's strange that this information is so hard to find.

(Although the IETF is in good company here. I wasn't even able to  
determine the NAME of an IEEE standard I was looking for on their  
website.)

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From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:09:35 +0200

--On 17. august 2005 10:48 -0400 Edward Lewis <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I was trying to find links from the www.ietf.org and www.rfc-editor.org
> pages that lead to indexes of BCPs and STDs.  I couldn't find any links.
> If I know the RFC number I can find them via a few methods, and I am
> aware of search engines.

For BCPs, from http://www.ietf.org/

"RFC pages"
"RFC-Editor Document Database"
"BCP Index"

3 clicks.

For STDs, from http://www.ietf.org/

"RFC Pages"
"RFC-Editor Document Database"
"Get RFC text by number within status category (Proposed Standard, Draft 
Standard, ...)"
"Standards"

Four clicks.

It might have been easier to find, but it's definitely there.

                      Harald

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From: Edward Lewis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:39:46 -0400

>3 clicks.

Ah, that's what I was seeking.

>For STDs, from http://www.ietf.org/

I had forgotten there was an FYI series.

Thanks for the links.  It's not that the data isn't there, it's just 
no obvious.
-- 
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Edward Lewis                                                +1-571-434-5468
NeuStar

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From: Edward Lewis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:45:03 -0400

>pages etc. at http://www.rfc-editor.org

;) I'm a DNS person, I only do lookups, not searches.

>Try http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcxx00.html for document categories

It seems like there are a lot of interesting pages that aren't 
referenced by the home page.  The latter is one of them...

I admit that there's context for my angst - the ending of the ATM 
Forum web site.  There is one DNS parameter (RR type ATMA) whose 
defining document was linked to from there.  The FTP site is still 
apparently around, but the web site has gone/been replaced.
-- 
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Edward Lewis                                                +1-571-434-5468
NeuStar

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From: Bob Braden <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:07:59 -0700

>
>
>
>Thanks for the links.  It's not that the data isn't there, it's just no 
>obvious.

The RFC Editor has devoted some effort over the past several years to make 
searching the
various views of the RFC archives more obvious.  Apparently, we have not 
succeeded!!
We would be happy to receive suggestions.

Note that you can simply enter "BCPxxxx" to the RFC Editor search engine, 
and it will display
that BCP (and its RFC #).

RFC Editor/bb

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From: Edward Lewis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:16:46 -0400

>We would be happy to receive suggestions.

It would be nice if there was button (or menu time or some such 
graphic widget) that said "BCP" that pointed to 
http://www.rfc-editor.org/bcp-index.html.

Similarly for STD and FYI.

>Note that you can simply enter "BCPxxxx" to the RFC Editor search engine, and
>it will display that BCP (and its RFC #).

Sure, but, well, having drilled into many folks heads that DNS does 
look ups and not searches, using a search engine to find a document 
by number seems like using sledgehammer to hand a picture. ;)
-- 
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Edward Lewis                                                +1-571-434-5468
NeuStar