Subject: IETF 82 Audio Streaming - Updated

From: Joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:43:54 +0800

Greetings! some updates associated with current conditions.

Notes:

* Streaming has commenced.

* All streams appear nominal audio quality wise.

* Archives streams will appear in the ietf repository

	http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf82/

* The plenaries will be streamed on the channel associated with room 201ABC
	
	http://ietf82streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf826.m3u

The room to channel map is as follows:

101A     stream01 http://ietf82streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf821.m3u
101B     stream02 http://ietf82streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf822.m3u
101C     stream03 http://ietf82streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf823.m3u
101D     stream04 http://ietf82streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf824.m3u
102      stream05 http://ietf82streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf825.m3u
201ABC   stream06 http://ietf82streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf826.m3u
201DEF   stream07 http://ietf82streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf827.m3u
3FBanquet stream08 http://ietf82streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf828.m3u

for the plenaries:

201 stream06 http://ietf82streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf826.m3u

For general remote participation including meetecho support see:

http://www.ietf.org/meeting/82/remote-participation.html

- -Audio Streaming-

All 8 parallel tracks at the IETF 88 meeting will be broadcast starting
with the commencement of working group sessions on Monday, Nov 14 2011
at 0900 CST (GMT+8) and continue until the close of sessions on Friday,
Nov18th .

Because we have been asked several times in the past, note that if you
wish to use the rooms that are being recorded for impromptu meeting
during unscheduled sessions or lunch breaks that you can invite remote
participants to tune in to the appropriate stream. Recording cannot be
guaranteed for unscheduled sessions. Conversely, it should never be
assumed that recording or observation is not occurring on open
microphones, they are after all connected to the Internet.

The links for streaming sources and the schedule are best retrieved from
the IETF tools agenda, which as per standard operating procedure will be
located here:

http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/82/ <http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/80/>

- -Jabber/XMPP-

For information on IETF Jabber participation see:

http://www.ietf.org/jabber/index.html
<http://www.ietf.org/jabber/index.html>

or click on the Jabber links in the tools team agenda once you have a
properly configured jabber/xmpp messaging client.

- -Webex-

Webex screen sharing participation is possible for a limited number of
sessions. Consult with your working-group chair or the secretariat for
more information.

- -Ticketing-

For prompt access to the meeting trouble desk, the email address is:

[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>

For streaming related issues please send email
to [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> with
info including the current time and affected streaming channel.

Thanks
Joel Jaeggli

---

From: Barry Leiba <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 00:22:00 -0500

> * All streams appear nominal audio quality wise.

What is this meant to mean?

Barry

---

From: Joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:04:54 +0800

> What is this meant to mean?

Within expected paramaters... it's not like I generated MOS scores, but
they all sound pretty much like they should.

---

From: Barry Leiba <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:07:20 +0800

> they all sound pretty much like they should.

OK, I think I get you.  "All streams appear to be of reasonably good quality."

I was confused, because I don't think "nominal" means what you think it means.
Carry on.

Barry

---

From: Joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:11:01 +0800

> I was confused, because I don't think "nominal" means what you think it means.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nominal#Adjective

6 or 10

---

From: Yaakov Stein <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:25:22 +0000

As someone listening in remotely, and with a background in audio quality measurement, 
the audio quality was consistently very good.

Y(J)S

---

From: Dave CROCKER <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 05:35:41 +0800

> OK, I think I get you.  "All streams appear to be of reasonably good quality."

And yet you grew up listening to NASA mission control announcements during 
launch broadcasts, didn't you?

That's certainly where I constantly heard the term used with exactly this meaning.

d/

-- 

   Dave Crocker
   Brandenburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net

---

From: Yaakov Stein <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:26:53 +0000

I want to somewhat retract my earlier statement on how good the audio quality has been.

After being very impressed with the quality on many sessions,
this morning I attempted to be (inter)active in a session.

I discovered that the delay was intolerably long,
over 5 seconds one-way delay between seeing a jabber update and hearing the associated audio.
And the jabber typing presumably took some time too, so the real delay was even higher.
By the time I heard the chair ask for questions, I typed in a question and the jabber scribe saw it,
the next speaker was already talking.

It is conventional in speech quality metrics to distinguish between whether the application is one-way or interactive. 
When interactive, if the delay is too long for the application to properly function, 
the subjective quality is effectively zero.

So, for plenary presentations and sessions where one just wants to listen the audio is great.
For sessions where one is used to playing an active role, the quality is completely unacceptable.

I captured a few packets and discovered that the audio is MPEG sampled at 22050 over http over tcp.
Perhaps we could have a parallel RTSP 8K flow for people desiring it.

Y(J)S

---

From: Simon Pietro Romano <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:39:38 +0100

Hi Yakoov,

live sessions provided by Meetecho adopt exactly the approach you 
propose  (RTSP 8K flow). I think that the objective of the high quality 
mp3 feed is also in line with what you suggest.

Cheers,

Simon

Il 16/11/2011 09:26, Yaakov Stein ha scritto:
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
>

-- 
                             _\\|//_
                             ( O-O )
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o00~~(_)~~00o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                     Simon Pietro Romano
               Universita' di Napoli Federico II
                  Computer Science Department
         Phone: +39 081 7683823 -- Fax: +39 081 7684219
                 e-mail: [email-masked]
           http://www.comics.unina.it/simonpietro.romano

     <<Molti mi dicono che lo scoraggiamento è l'alibi degli
    idioti. Ci rifletto un istante; e mi scoraggio>>. Magritte.
                          oooO
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(   )~~ Oooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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                            \_)    ) /
                                  (_/

---

From: Joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:00:02 +0800

> For sessions where one is used to playing an active role, the quality is completely unacceptable.

We've been pretty unequivical on the internet radio streaming model
associated with the mp3 audio stream.

Paul Hoffman has been charged with the responsibility for producing the
rfp for it's enhancement or replacement. I think that's a worthy project.