Subject: "Jabber Scribe" howto

From: Peter Saint-Andre - &yet <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 19:15:03 -0700

FYI, today I published an I-D that provides a few suggestions for 
fulfilling the role of a "Jabber Scribe" during IETF meetings:

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saintandre-chatroom-relay/

Feedback is welcome. (Please send it to me directly or cc me, since I am 
not subscribed to the [email-masked] list.)

Thanks!

Peter

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://andyet.com/

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From: Jelte Jansen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 09:44:58 +0200

> not subscribed to the [email-masked] list.)

Oh nice!

I've jabber-scribed a number of times, a few suggestions, no
requirements for the scribe but things that tend to make the process easier:

- as a scribe you may not know all people that step up to the mic, this
is not a big problem but it helps if you are clear about it, so
signaling you don't know or are not sure gives other people in the
jabber room a chance to fill in the name. I tend to use (?) behind a
name if i'm not sure and use (??) as the whole 'name' if I don't know at
all. Doesn't matter what method is used as long as it's clear. Most
importantly for 'new' scribes: it should be clear that you do not need
to know everybody by name.

- there usually is a lot of side-chat in the jabber room (i tend to do
that a lot as well), and most of it does not necessarily needs to find
its way back into the real room. As a scribe it helps to be very clear
in advance on how to signal to you that someone wants something relayed
to the mic; so ask people to put MIC: or something similar in front of
messages they want relayed.

Jelte

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From: Warren Kumari <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 14:03:20 -0700

On Thursday, October 16, 2014, Jelte Jansen <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > not subscribed to the [email-masked] <javascript:;> list.)
> >
>
> Oh nice!
>
... and when chairing I *always* mean, but usually forget, to say that the
jabber scribe gets priority at the mic for relaying comments.

Attending remotely is hard enough without having to wait for the queue to
drain, by which time your comment has already been made, or is no longer
relevant or similar...

W

-- 
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in
the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
pants.
   ---maf

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From: Melinda Shore <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 14:04:39 -0800

On 10/16/14 1:03 PM, Warren Kumari wrote:
> Attending remotely is hard enough without having to wait for the queue
> to drain, by which time your comment has already been made, or is no
> longer relevant or similar...

"Might already have been made" strikes me as a poor reason to jump the
queue.  The relevance question would be the same if someone is there
in person or not.  There's a sort of standard anecdote in library
public services about someone waiting in line for the reference
librarian, losing patience, calling the reference desk on his mobile,
and getting immediate service.  It may be better to ask if anybody has
anything to add before moving on to the next topic.

But, I agree that this is an extremely useful draft.  It may or
may not be better for the chairs' wiki but either way it's a huge
service.

Melinda

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From: Fernando Gont <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 20:00:16 -0300

On 10/16/2014 06:03 PM, Warren Kumari wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thursday, October 16, 2014, Jelte Jansen <[email-masked]
> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
> 
> ... and when chairing I *always* mean, but usually forget, to say that
> the jabber scribe gets priority at the mic for relaying comments. 

*Thanks* for that!

Best regards,
-- 
Fernando Gont
e-mail: [email-masked] || [email-masked]
PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1

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From: John Leslie <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 19:19:02 -0400

Melinda Shore <[email-masked]> wrote:
> queue.

   I think Warren meant that the jabber scribe shouldn't have to wait
in line -- that a remote participant's place in line should be set
when the "MIC:" comment comes on jabber, without the jabber scribe
having to leave his/her seat.

   Jabber scribing is hard enough when you're sitting; and must suffer
while you stand in line. (Also, it's even harder to read name-tags
while standing _behind_ the person at the mike.)

   There's a balancing act here: how do we trust a jabber scribe to
estimate the correct place-in-line for the remote participant?

   IMHO, the right solution would involve making a separate mike
available to the jabber scribe, and having the meeting chair tell
the jabber scribe when to use it.

   (YMMV, I suppose...)

--
John Leslie <[email-masked]>

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From: Warren Kumari <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 17:26:42 -0700

On Thursday, October 16, 2014, Melinda Shore <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> in person or not.

Nope -- if you watch the mic queue, folk in line change what they are going
to say (including simply sitting down) as folk in front of them in the line
make thier points.

It gets annoying if you are remote and send "MIC: I agree with everything
Mark said", and then the 12 folk in front of your comment all point out the
blindingly obvious fault in Mark's comment" - in person your can simply
slink back to your seat, remote you have to send "MIC: Abort! Abort!!! Run
away!!!!" -- ok, more seriously, if the previous 12!folk have all said
variations of "Jah, Mark is right, we need to do X, then Y, then Z" the
remote person might not want to waste WG time with his comment that Mark is
right, and that x, y and z are in fact what is needed, and that they should
happen in that order, etc.

I also think that working remotely is hard enough (listening to the
mumbles, guessing who is at the Mic (because they forgot to say thier name
*again*), etc, summarizing your comments into something complete and
coherent (there is no real back and forth), etc that remote folk get
special handling...

Of course, one clever monkey at one of my WGs sat in the back of the room
and "jumped the queue" by pretending to be remote...  :-)

W

> There's a sort of standard anecdote in library