Subject: Should I make and donate a patent to Open Invention Network?

From: Alexey Eromenko <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 13:55:38 +0200

Hello,

Some of my inventions can be patended. Mobile TCP is a big one.
Another patentable idea from my IPv5 (IP-FF) protocol stack is a hybrid
UniMulticast Routing. Those ideas can be back-ported to IPv4 and IPv6
networks.

I have few ways:
1. Don't patent at all
2. Patent through Open Invention Network (OIN), basically donate patent to
Open - Source community
3. Go commercial,  and patent it myself. (But I do need to put food on the
table, considering I am currently unemployed,  but I am not sure this is
the correct way to promote Internet innovation,  that is supposed to be
free. After all my innovation stands on the shoulders of Titans. The
original TCP/IP invention by DARPA.). But I don't have the capital to
enforce the patents, or to become a patent troll anyway... so perhaps this
is not a realistic scenario. Finally I think proprietary Internet
technology is a wrong idea.

Questions:
1. Can I submit a patent application,  after submitting IETF draft ?
2. Which of the three options would you choose, in my position?

-Alexey Eromenko " Technologov "

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From: "John Levine" <[email-masked]>
Date: 23 Jan 2016 15:11:52 -0000

>1. Can I submit a patent application,  after submitting IETF draft ?

The answer depends on what country you're talking about.  In the
United States, there is usually a one-year grace period, in
other countries there may not be.  (But keep in mind that the IETF
mailing list is not a reliable source of legal advice.)

>2. Which of the three options would you choose, in my position?

I would disclose the invention and forget about the patent.  Getting a
patent is expensive, thousands of dollars in each country where you
file, and despite the hopes of inventors most patents turn out to have
no value.

R's,
John

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From: Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 07:24:50 -0800

Patent if you have commercial interests. Usually if you build a product or
want to make money from sueing others whom you expect to build something
similar in the future. Or sell your patent to someone who will.

Otherwise: Do not simply "not patent", but "publish" your ideas to create
prior art that makes it more difficult for others to later patent the same
idea. There are even dedicated sites purely for that purpose.

When you do so, include all possible and impossible names under which someone
might look for the idea. And all (im)possible option and variations of your
idea. Makes it a lot easier to find it and use it to fight later patents.

Btw: In Europe you can fight in the courts released patents anonymously. That makes
it a lot more attractive for competing companies to fight out patent problems there.
I guess they had to do some job creation program for lawyers given the lead the US
has in the litigation market.

Cheers
    Toerless

-- 
---
Toerless Eckert, [email-masked]

---

From: Behcet Sarikaya <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 10:15:15 -0600

Alexey since you already published them I don't think you can patent them.

Behcet

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 5:55 AM, Alexey Eromenko <[email-masked]> wrote:
> table, considering I am currently unemployed,  but I am not sure this is the
> correct way to promote Internet innovation,  that is supposed to be free.
> After all my innovation stands on the shoulders of Titans. The original
> TCP/IP invention by DARPA.). But I don't have the capital to enforce the
> patents, or to become a patent troll anyway... so perhaps this is not a
> realistic scenario. Finally I think proprietary Internet technology is a
> wrong idea.
>
> Questions:

---

From: "John Levine" <[email-masked]>
Date: 25 Jan 2016 16:34:55 -0000

>Alexey since you already published them I don't think you can patent them.

In the U.S. there is a one year grace period after publication to
submit a patent application.  In other countries the rules vary.

But again, don't expect reliable legal advice on a mailing list.

R's,
John

---

From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 11:50:09 -0500

In the U.S., 35 USC § 102(b) allows the inventor a one-year grace period to file after public disclosure, offer for sale, in public use, or otherwise disclosed.

> On Jan 25, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Behcet Sarikaya <[email-masked]> wrote:
>

---

From: "GTW" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 12:01:21 -0500

This is not legal advice ... but the point Bechet is making is underneath 
the decision  some entity with a patententable invention  must contemplate 
before making a contribution based on the invention to an SDO ... when to 
make the contribution, when to make a disclosure, when to apply for a patent 
(before the contribution likely) , where to apply for a patent, etc.  ...

for sure patent offices around the world seek close relationships with SDOs 
http://sites.nationalacademies.org/cs/groups/pgasite/documents/webpage/pga_072350.pdf

In this case  http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2015/3366.html   a 
patent was held valid but the patent owner applied for the patent just hours 
after disclosing the invention to participants in an SDO  and the validity 
was challenged

Alexy did not indicate in the note that the ideas had been contributed yet 
... but if they were ... Alexy would do well to get some legal advice

BTW, an option Alexy did not indicate is to sell the patentable  invention 
to some entity that might be interested

George T. Willingmyre
President GTW Associates

-----Original Message----- 
From: Behcet Sarikaya
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 11:15 AM
To: Alexey Eromenko
Cc: ietf
Subject: Re: Should I make and donate a patent to Open Invention Network?

Behcet

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 5:55 AM, Alexey Eromenko <[email-masked]> wrote:
> the

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From: Joe Touch <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 11:04:46 -0800

The following is also useful to remember:

https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html

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From: "Dr. Sandeep Joshi [MU - Jaipur]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 02:13:15 +0000

Dear Sir/Madam,
Anyone can let me know our working group name. I forgot it.
Thanking you,
Dr. Sandeep Joshi
-----Original Message-----
From: ietf [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of John Levine
Sent: 25 January 2016 22:05
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Should I make and donate a patent to Open Invention Network?

>Alexey since you already published them I don't think you can patent them.

In the U.S. there is a one year grace period after publication to submit a patent application.  In other countries the rules vary.

R's,
John