Subject: VAT invoice for Berlin

From: "John Levine" <[email-masked]>
Date: 3 Aug 2016 18:50:59 -0000

I just fished my VAT invoice out of the spam folder.

It came from this address, not anything with an obvious
connection to the IETF:

   VMC SASU <[email-masked]>

If you're expecting one, a little spam greppage might help.

R's,
John

---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2016 22:35:34 +0200

Actually the problem is that the invoices sent originally, are illegal.

Despite having complained about that, and despite the LEGAL PERIOD for a VALID INVOICE, the people that filled in the VAT to get the VALID INVOICE (at least in my case), NEVER got THEM.

Regards,
Jordi

-----Mensaje original-----
De: ietf <[email-masked]> en nombre de John Levine <[email-masked]>
Responder a: <[email-masked]>
Fecha: miércoles, 3 de agosto de 2016, 20:50
Para: <[email-masked]>
Asunto: VAT invoice for Berlin

    

    R's,
    John

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From: Alexa Morris <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:49:31 -0700

Jordi et al.

We are following up with the firm that is issuing the VAT invoices (VMC). Anyone who has not yet received an invoice should receive one in the next couple of days. I apologize for any inconvenience.

Regards,
Alexa

>    If you're expecting one, a little spam greppage might help.

----------
Alexa Morris / Executive Director / IETF
+1.510.492.4001
Email: [email-masked]

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From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 19:48:40 +0200

The problem is that legal period to get an invoice is a maximum of 15 days from the payment date, which now is OVERDUE.

Regards,
Jordi

-----Mensaje original-----
De: ietf <[email-masked]> en nombre de Alexa Morris <[email-masked]>
Responder a: <[email-masked]>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto de 2016, 18:49
Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <[email-masked]>
CC: IETF discussion list <[email-masked]>
Asunto: Re: VAT invoice for Berlin

    Jordi et al.

    Regards,
    Alexa

    
    ----------

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From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 21:54:37 +0000

On 4 Aug 2016, at 17:48, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:

> The problem is that legal period to get an invoice is a maximum of 15 
> days from the payment date, which now is OVERDUE.

I am not a lawyer and not a tax accountant but I was curious where you 
got the 15 days “after payment” from.

According to German UStG 14 / 2 / 2 I would think generally it’s 
“within 6 months” after execution of the service.

Given you are in .ES (and that’s why this matters mostly) UStG 14a / 3 
probably applies which says “has to write an invoice until the 15th 
day of the month following …”

Is that where it’s coming from?

But given Alexa has already followed up that they are on it, I am sure 
it’ll all solve itself quickly.  Maybe they can add a reference to the 
VAT FAQ ;-)

/bz

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From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2016 09:56:09 +0200

Yes, that’s the point. Is not 15 days, is the 15 day of the following month, but my understanding is that is after payment. In fact the wrong invoices sent were sent *before* IETF itself started, which make sense, because you already paid even if the “service” has not yet been provided.

Regards,
Jordi

-----Mensaje original-----
De: ietf <[email-masked]> en nombre de "Bjoern A. Zeeb" <[email-masked]>
Responder a: <[email-masked]>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto de 2016, 23:54
Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <[email-masked]>
CC: IETF discussion list <[email-masked]>
Asunto: Re: VAT invoice for Berlin

    

    

    /bz

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From: tom p. <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 17:04:45 +0100

Last time I looked at UK VAT law, which, for the time being, should be
in line with the EU VAT law, the basic tax point is the date when all
the services have been provided, except for the invoicing, but an actual
tax point is created on the date when the invoice is raised or payment
is received, whichever is the earlier.  An invoice must be issued within
14 days of the basic tax point so pay without being asked and you create
an actual tax point and should receive an invoice within 14 days of the
payment - this can then be well in advance of the basic tax point (which
is overridden by the actual tax point).  The tax point determines the
VAT rate that is applicable and when payments are due to or from the
authorities so raise an invoice and you become liable for the tax
regardless of whether or not you have received a payment; there is
something to be said for persuading people to pay before you raise an
invoice:-).

Tom Petch

----- Original Message -----
From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <[email-masked]>
To: "IETF discussion list" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 8:56 AM

Yes, that’s the point. Is not 15 days, is the 15 day of the following
month, but my understanding is that is after payment. In fact the wrong
invoices sent were sent *before* IETF itself started, which make sense,
because you already paid even if the “service” has not yet been
provided.

Regards,
Jordi

-----Mensaje original-----
De: ietf <[email-masked]> en nombre de "Bjoern A. Zeeb"
<[email-masked]>
Responder a: <[email-masked]>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto de 2016, 23:54
Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <[email-masked]>
CC: IETF discussion list <[email-masked]>

    > days from the payment date, which now is OVERDUE.

    I am not a lawyer and not a tax accountant but I was curious where
you
    got the 15 days “after payment” from.

    Given you are in .ES (and that’s why this matters mostly) UStG 14a /
3
    probably applies which says “has to write an invoice until the 15th
    day of the month following …”

    But given Alexa has already followed up that they are on it, I am
sure
    it’ll all solve itself quickly.  Maybe they can add a reference to
the
    VAT FAQ ;-)

    /bz

---

From: Dick Franks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 06:16:01 +0100

> something to be said for persuading people to pay before you raise an

For payment in advance of supply and no VAT invoice yet issued, tax point
is the date of payment.

According to HM Revenue and Customs:
Deadlines

Usually VAT invoices must be issued within 30 days of the date of supply
<https://www.gov.uk/vat-record-keeping/time-of-supply-or-tax-point> or the
date of payment (if you’re paid in advance).

--
Dick Franks