Subject: [EAI] BODY=8BITMIME or BINARYMIME (was: Re: Comment about draft-ietf-eai-smtpext-01.txt)

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 07:41:41 -0400

--On Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:36 +0300 Kari Hurtta 
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> It occurs me that it is somewhat unclear what BODY -values can
> be on EAI mail.
>
> If non-ascii characters is only on envelope, can it be:
>
> MAIL FROM:<[email-masked]> BODY=7BIT
>      ALT-ADDRESS=[email-masked]
> RCPT TO:<[email-masked]>
> DATA
> From: [email-masked]
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Ticket #XYC-234-VNC
>
> Ticket closed.
> .

This definitely needs some clarification.

First, I don't think it is required to have BODY=8BITMIME unless 
that is true.  The clear requirement is that the server support 
and announce the 8BITMIME option.   After that, the UTF8SMTP 
option controls what happens to the headers.  In principle, that 
means one could have either BODY= option.

I believe that: (1) we should require BODY=8BITMIME be supported 
by all clients and servers.   If nothing else, this is part of 
our philosophy, discussed long ago, that i18n mail should not be 
supported except by fairly capable servers and clients.  (2) We 
might provide for BINARYMIME with a "MAY" option -- i.e., one 
could support it if desired -- but I'd be much more inclined in 
that direction if someone could show enough implementations and 
operational experience with 3030 to get it moved to DRAFT, more 
or less now.  If there is no ability or motivation to do that, I 
don't think we should waste time on it.

> In other hands if it is required to use  BODY=8BITMIME, then
> also BODY=BINARYMIME is forbidded.

One can't have both on the same message.  But BINARYMIME doesn't 
change the syntax or mechanisms of the headers, only that of 
body parts (which is clear from the description).   So I don't 
see any conflict, i.e., parameters of

   UTF8HEADERS  implies 7BIT body and 8bit, line-oriented headers

   UTF8HEADERS+8BITMIME implies line-oriented 8bit body and 
8bit, line-oriented headers

   UTF8HEADERS+BINARYMIME implies arbitrary bitstream binary 
body in 8bit transmission form and 8bit, line-oriented headers.

Does that seem plausible?

    john

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---

From: Kari Hurtta <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 15:07:43 +0300 (EEST)

>>> John C Klensin

Yes.
 
>     john

/ Kari Hurtta

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 08:25:45 -0400

--On Monday, October 09, 2006 15:07 +0300 Kari Hurtta 
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>>>> John C Klensin
>> One can't have both on the same message.  But BINARYMIME
>> doesn't  change the syntax or mechanisms of the headers, only
>> that of  body parts (which is clear from the description).
>> So I don't  see any conflict, i.e., parameters of
>>

Yao, if others agree, can we get this into the spec?   Would you 
like me to draft text, or can you manage that?

      john

---

From: Kari Hurtta <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 16:10:10 +0300 (EEST)

> like me to draft text, or can you manage that?

You can draft it.

/ Kari Hurtta

---

From: Tony Hansen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:55:22 -0400

John C Klensin wrote:
> 
> One can't have both on the same message.  But BINARYMIME doesn't change
> the syntax or mechanisms of the headers, only that of body parts (which
> is clear from the description).   So I don't see any conflict, i.e.,
> parameters of
> 
>   UTF8HEADERS+8BITMIME implies line-oriented 8bit body and 8bit,
> line-oriented headers
> 
>   UTF8HEADERS+BINARYMIME implies arbitrary bitstream binary body in 8bit
> transmission form and 8bit, line-oriented headers.
> 

consistent and plausible

	Tony

---

From: Tony Finch <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:44:34 +0100

> > Does that seem plausible?

Agreed. http://fanf.livejournal.com/64533.html

I note that CHUNKING is part of the Lemonade profile, so more
implementations should be appearing. Whether they also support
BINARYMIME remains to be seen.

Tony.
-- 
f.a.n.finch  <[email-masked]>  http://dotat.at/
FORTIES CROMARTY FORTH: SOUTHERLY 6 TO GALE 8, DECREASING 5 OR 6 LATER. RAIN
OR SHOWERS. MODERATE OR GOOD.

---

From: "Yao Jiankang" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:34:25 +0800

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John C Klensin" <[email-masked]>
To: "Kari Hurtta" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:25 PM
Subject: [EAI] Re: BODY=8BITMIME or BINARYMIME (was: Re: Comment about draft-ietf-eai-smtpext-01.txt)

> like me to draft text, or can you manage that?

Yes, I will try to get this into smtpext spec. 
thanks.

Yao Jianakng
CNNIC