Subject: [IMRG] Internet measurement: what next?

From: Mark Allman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:30:00 -0400

I am interested in seeing some discussion about the fairly generic
topic of what sorts of outstanding problems exist in Internet
measurement:

    What are the core problems we need to solve?  
    What do we need to be able to measure that we cannot measure
      very well today?  
    Why?  
    What are the problems in taking measurements?  
    What can be done about those problems?
    What are practical problems that prevent wide-scale network
      measurement?
    What new tools does the community need to take, use, share and
      store measurements?

Please jump in with answers o any or all of the above.  Or, even
with additional big-picture sorts of questions of your own.

Thanks!

allman
(imrg chair)

--
Mark Allman -- BBN/NASA GRC -- http://roland.grc.nasa.gov/~mallman/

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---

From: "Alan Clark" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:04:47 -0400

Mark

In my opinion, current measures of PDV are not too useful when trying to
infer the effects of measured PDV on real time application performance.
This is partly due to the need to capture some aspects of the time varying
nature of PDV and it's impact on dynamic end systems such as de-jitter
buffers.  We've done some work in this space - notably developing an IP
network simulation model that can create delay traces that can closely
emulate captured traces, and using a "jitter envelope" to estimate jitter
(single point PDV measured with respect to a short term average delay) -
however we've only "scratched the surface" of the subject.
This is an important area to look at, given the emergence of a much wider
range of real time applications and the expected growth in voice, video,
netgames etc.

Alan Clark
Telchemy

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Mark
Allman
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:30 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [IMRG] Internet measurement: what next?

Thanks!

allman
(imrg chair)

---

From: Supratik Bhattacharyya <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:35:48 -0700

For a discussion on issues concerning the deployment of monitoring
infrastructure in large operational networks, please see:

1) "Network Measurement and Monitoring : A Sprint Perspective", S.
Bhattacharyya et al.
   Internet Draft draft-bhattacharyya-monitoring-sprint-01.  Available
at:
 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhattacharyya-monitoring-sprin
t-01.txt
	
   ABSTRACT:

   This document provides an overview of network measurements and
   monitoring from the perspective of Sprint Advanced Technology Labs.
   It starts with a detailed discussion of the benefits of monitoring
   for an ISP's backbone and the type of measurements required for
   various tasks. It describes the tools and techniques currently in
   use, and then outlines what else is needed to meet the challenges of
   monitoring an operational network.

2) "Deployment of inter-operable and cost-effective monitoring
infrastructure in ISP networks". S. Bhattacharyya et al.  
   Internet Draft draft-bhattacharyya-monitoring-deployment-00.
Available at:
 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhattacharyya-monitoring-deplo
yment-00.txt

   ABSTRACT:	
   This document identifies issues and concerns in monitoring ISP
   networks. It outlines the components of a monitoring infrastructure
   designed to support ISP requirements. It discusses deployment and
   inter-operability issues. Related IETF working groups are identified.
   The goal of this document is to open a discussion on whether there
   should be a BOF addressing this issue at the next IETF (Vienna, July
   2003).

A BOF named ISP Monitoring Infrastructure Deployment (ispmon) has been
scheduled at the upcoming IETF in Vienna (July 13-18, 2003) to discuss
issues concerning operational monitoring. For details, check
http://www.ietf.org

Regards,

Supratik

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Mark
Allman
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:30 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [IMRG] Internet measurement: what next?

I am interested in seeing some discussion about the fairly generic topic
of what sorts of outstanding problems exist in Internet
measurement:

Please jump in with answers o any or all of the above.  Or, even with
additional big-picture sorts of questions of your own.

Thanks!

allman
(imrg chair)

---

From: Victor Reijs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:36:21 +0100

Hello Mark,

Here are activities started up within TF-NGN on measurement 
infrastructures and PERT (Performance Enhancement and response 
team). So these are the issues we find important to work on and 
which are not yet covered fully:
http://www.dante.net/tf-ngn/pert/
http://www.dante.net/tf-ngn/perfmonit/
and the below documend gives a general overview of our needs with 
regard to the above:
http://www.dante.net/tf-ngn/D9.7-test_traffic_measurement_tools.pdf

All the best,

Victor

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