Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-savola-ipv6-127-prefixlen-00.txt (fwd)

From: "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:45:08 -0800

kre,

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> Absolutely. If you dial into your company, there is nothing that I
>> know of that says you must get a /64. The allocation of the SLA
>> bits is at the discretion of the company's network administrator,
>> and allocating a /60 to ...

> kre wrote:
> A while ago, you were insisting that everyone get a /48 ... (in
> this message you changed from absolute to "should", which is only
> a minor variation).

I have not changed my mind a bit:

1. Your university has a /48.
2. Your home gets a /48.
3. If your university provides you address space that you use in your
home setup, that part is a university subnet.

What I think the setup should be is:
1. get a /48 for your home. Subnet at will.

2a. If in your home setup, you need only one subnet with university
addresses, then getting a /64 from the university to that one subnet
is fine. Maybe don't need university addresses for the subnet you
use for your microwave oven.

2b. If you have more than one subnet in your home that needs
university addresses, these are multiple university subnets and then
you should get a /60 (to stay on a nibble) from them.

> Once again, all we need here is the most flexibility we can have,
> no built in assumptions about what is required to be a boundary
> (and to simply ignore any noise in any docs which claims there is
> such a thing).

I understand your point, and it is valid.
Our opinions are based for part on our respectives experiences.
Please allow me to share part of mine:

- I can remember ten years ago when the company name associated
with the word "network" was Novell, that I had to learn IP to tunnel
IPX into it. For what I remember, IPX, with the MAC address being
the host part and a fixed network/host boundary, was a lot simpler
than IP. Same idea here with the fixed /64 boundary.

- I teach IP (v4 and v6). You would be surprised to know how many
students never grasp the VLSM concept.

Michel.

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From: Robert Elz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:51:53 +0700

Date:        Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:45:08 -0800
    From:        "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
    Message-ID:  <[email-masked]>

  | 1. Your university has a /48.
  | 2. Your home gets a /48.
  | 3. If your university provides you address space that you use in your
  | home setup, that part is a university subnet.

The question is who otherwise provides the address space?   And then
what address space I provide to those who connect to my house, and what
address space they provide others who connect to them.

Please do remember that while multiple layers of connectivity today might
be silly, as much of it is implemented out of ancient slow technology, there's
no reason this has to continue into the future - we should certainly be
planning for everyone to have high bandwidth low delay paths available.
In that environment, there's a strong incentive for multiple orgs/people
to group together, and between them buy a bigger pipe, as bandwidth costs
are almost never linear.

So, if ...

  | What I think the setup should be is:
  | 1. get a /48 for your home. Subnet at will.

who issus that /48?   The university's ISP isn't going to, they've never
heard of me.  APNIC?   For every house in the AP region?  And if they do,
this will actually result in scalable routing?   More likely, the university,
that's where the connectivity goes - they're the ones who know who I am.
And in that case, they're not going to be providing any /48's to me.

If I'm going to get a /48 from somewhere, where would that be - without
requiring me to abandon my nice employer sponsored connectivity (which I
do use mostly for work related purposes) and go talk to some ISP with a
/35 or something to carve up.

  | Our opinions are based for part on our respectives experiences.
  | Please allow me to share part of mine:

I'm still waiting to hear about the global hierarchically routed Novell
net which actually worked with its address plan, and how big that was.

For sure, simple is better, but it has to actually work.

  | - I teach IP (v4 and v6). You would be surprised to know how many
  | students never grasp the VLSM concept.

Many students never grasp almost any concept that one cares to name.

Fortunately here, your average person doesn't have to grasp VLSM, all
they need to deal with is "here is your prefix, it is N bits long, put
those values in the config box where it asks".

Even better if one day (ideally soon) they don't even need to see that,
and just by connecting their box gets told the prefix to use.

kre