Subject: RE: apps people?

From: "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:06:50 -0700

> [email-masked] wrote:
> Please describe for me what consumer networks (a home connection
> to an ADSL provider for example) that have dynamic routing with
> their service providers?

Mine, for example. I have a residential SBC aDSL line, single static IP,
256kbit up / 1mbit down for $49/mo which is mainstream in California. I
have two IPv4 eBGP peers, three IPv6 eBGP peers (not the same ones as
v4), six EIGRP neighbors across IPSEC tunnels and I also do VOIP across
tunnels, p2p file sharing (for educational purposes only, you
understand) and some other stuff.

For customers I have installed lots of Cisco 800 series for ISDN, IDSL
and ADSL, some of which with built-in voice such as the 827-4V for aDSL
or the uBR924/925 for cable and they all have dynamic routing and
route-maps, and these are at people's homes, but part of their business
network.

Just because you've never seen any does not mean it does not exist.

> Ok, so you mean that people like Sprint and Telia doesn't use
> route-filtering on their BGP peers in order to allow only paying
> customers transit? And that they doesn't use route-filtering on
> their incoming BGP peers from multihoming customers to ensure
> that those customers do not announce the Internet back to them?

Yes they do and so do I, what is your point? Your view appears to be
limited to a very small fraction of the Internet and appears to stop at
the border router of the enterprise. Beyond these border routers, there
are hundreds and sometimes thousands of routers in the private network.

Michel.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 21:31:40 +0200 (CEST)

> understand) and some other stuff.

Would you say that your network is a typical representation of a future Joe Six-
Pack network with IPv6? With the eBGP peers and all?

With that setup I think you are competent enough to handle your IPv6 internal 
network, and filtering (routing, access-lists and what not) without relying on 
site locals for any of it. 

> route-maps, and these are at people's homes, but part of their

So the people in whos homes these devices are installed have several subnets 
internally and therefore needs to run a dynamic routing protocol within their 
home as well as extending it to the service provider upstream?

Is NAT involved here somewhere?

Or do you mean that there are VPNish configurations over which the dynamic 
routing is run with an internal corporate network but still a static 
configuration for the defaultroute to the service provider and vice verse?

Does the people in their home manage their configuration and routers themselves 
or is that provided as part of the service?

In my view the "consumer" is the average user connecting the home to the 
Internet by some form of broadband access to get access to triple-play services 
etc. Perhaps that connection is also used for telecommuting. But I do not see 
the requirement for dynamic routing and through that route filtering with the 
upstream service provider(s). Running a VPN tunnel and routing over that to the 
job over the broadband access is a different thing, most likely not involving 
the service provider at all except for carrying tunnel packets.

> are hundreds and sometimes thousands of routers in the private

I commented on route filtering in combination with security. I argue that route 
filtering for security to prevent hacking is neither common nor encouraged. 
There are many valid uses of route filtering in networks with routing 
requirements. I do not think the average consumer network will be of such 
complexity to require filtering of routes, and I do not think that site locals 
would add anything if route filtering would be used for security to prevent 
hacking.