Subject: The War is on...

From: todd <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 07:54:05 -0700

Well its happened - the EFF is suing the NSA for 'holes engineered' into 
things.

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report-eff-sues-nsa-us-director-of-national-intelligence-for-intentionally-leaving-holes-in-software-unplugged-2000157

How long do you all think it will take before the IETF and its  IPR WG 
members are by name added as defendants in this matter ?

Todd Glassey

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 12:02:19 -0400

--On Monday, July 07, 2014 07:54 -0700 todd
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> Well its happened - the EFF is suing the NSA for 'holes
> engineered' into things.
> 
> http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report-eff-sues-nsa-us-directo
> r-of-national-intelligence-for-intentionally-leaving-holes-in-
> software-unplugged-2000157
> 
> How long do you all think it will take before the IETF and its
> IPR WG members are by name added as defendants in this matter ?

I can see a number of issues for the IETF in any situation in
which an organization is accused of deliberately inserting
vulnerabilities into protocols or methods or of hiding
vulnerabilities of which it is aware to exploit them.  As as as
the IETF (or any other SDO) is concerned, most of them would be
arise if the SDO or key members of its leadership were somehow
complicit in the actions.  A reasonable person might want to
examine the SDO's review and decision processes to be sure they
provide adequate safeguards against such activities.  

However, I have trouble seeing any of that as an IPR issue
either under current IETF policies or others one might imagine,
especially as long as the SDO explicitly disclaimed warranties
that standards were problem-free.  ...And at least under the IPR
laws of this planet.

    john

---

From: todd <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 11:38:41 -0700

John - this is just an observation... and its an unproven scenario but I 
would not want to swear this isnt happening - that being the EFF suit 
being expanded to include the IETF and its formal sponsor agencies.

Yes??? OK  so what is the problem here then and what was it done across?

The answer to the first is "a whole bunch of people got together (here 
in the IETF)  to control or manipulate a SDO process intentionally to 
facilitate a back-door into these practices" - that equals  functional a 
conspiracy; and since it was done across the Internet that makes it a 
Conspiracy to commit fraud by wire making this a criminal and a civil 
matter since it involves numerous jurisdictions formal Government  
staffers...  ooops.

As to what proves this, remember Dean Anderson and I (as well as others) 
demanding both changes which would prevent unauthorized uses of IETF 
protocols and specify how they were to be used and not used?  That 
created the PRIOR ART reference point for the claim that the IETF 
intentionally placed these holes there and then protected them by 
refusing to place the controls on its own process necessary to enforce 
restricted uses for its Intellectual Properties;  he he he...

Remember I also allege that it was one of the things Harald "banned me 
without process for a calendar year over" - for which Russ Housely (and 
Jorge as IETF Counsel) when he took over as the Chair of the IETF 
rescinded... Know what was funny Russ apologized in email but refused to 
formally apologize on behalf of the IETF.

What does that say about our collective integrity here?

Also there is another issue - NO ONE IN THIS ORG has Insurance for a 
class action law suit from the protocols too.

Wait - who could sue the SDO?

How about all of the users... globally suing the IETF for the frauds the 
NSA co-opted... You think it isnt happening right now? I assure you the 
Arrogance of the idiots who forgot that they stand as fiduciaries to any 
relying party in their role in the SDO's like this one is also 
actionable... meaning the actual members of the WG's who are working on 
the flawed protocols also have this same civil liability from those 
parties who have been damaged.

If this is true (and we have yet to see that proven out) it appears that 
once again the IETF shot its own face off... Nice.

Todd Glassey
--------------------
This post is a personal opinion with all of the personal opinion 
disclaimers pertaining to the IETF and its operations.

On 7/7/2014 9:02 AM, John C Klensin wrote:
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From: todd <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 11:54:27 -0700

How about this John - it gets much worse...

You do understand that the NSA will have to 'publish' all of the 
commentary and documents about "it and its partner's in Industry in the 
manipulation of  the standards the IETF assured the world were safe to 
use" and that is where the pain will start - there will be all kinds of 
class actions filed I am predicting and I would not want to be any of 
the corporations in those WG's with direct liability there.

So john I am Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off.  It playing out 
just like the end scene of the Chrtonicles of Riddick... "Now isnt that 
Ironic!"

Imagine the EFF as the agent who takes the SDO IETF down and they dont 
even see it coming.  I am betting Dean Anderson is just about to laugh 
himself to a new plain... its that funny.

Todd

---

From: todd <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 12:09:31 -0700

Oops forgot to mention that plane was intentionally spelled plain (sorta 
a play on just being one of the guys, askari as it were).

Todd

On 7/7/2014 11:54 AM, todd wrote:
> commentary and documents about "it and its partner's in Industry in 
> the manipulation of  the standards the IETF assured the world were 
> safe to use" and that is where the pain will start - there will be all 
> kinds of class actions filed I am predicting and I would not want to 
> be any of the corporations in those WG's with direct liability there.
>
> just like the end scene of the Chrtonicles of Riddick... "Now isnt 
> that Ironic!"
>
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