Subject: [ipwave] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31.txt

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 19:06:56 +0100

Hi IPWAVErs,

Following the discussion during presentation of the IPv6/OCB slides by 
Nabil during IPWAVE WG meeting, I have updated the IPv6/OCB draft.

This is the ChangeLog:

- filled in the section titled "Pseudonym Handling";
- removed a 'MAY NOT' phrase about possibility of having other
   prefix than the LL on the link between cars;
- shortened and improved the paragraph about Mobile IPv6, now with
   DNAv6;
- improved the ND text about ND retransmissions with relationship to
   packet loss;
- changed the title of an appendix from 'EPD' to 'Protocol Layering';
- improved the 'Aspects introduced by OCB' appendix with a few phrases
   about the channel use and references.

This fixes all issues about ND and pseudonym handling.

Alex

-------- Message transféré --------
Sujet : New Version Notification for 
draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31.txt
Date : Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:01:52 -0800
De : [email-masked]
Pour : Jerome Haerri <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], 
Jerome Haerri <[email-masked]>, Alexandre Petrescu 
<[email-masked]>, Alexandre Petrescu 
<[email-masked]>, Nabil Benamar <[email-masked]>, 
Thierry Ernst <[email-masked]>, Jong-Hyouk Lee 
<[email-masked]>

A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31.txt
has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb
Revision:	31
Title:		Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks operating 
in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-80211-OCB)
Document date:	2018-11-19
Group:		ipwave
Pages:		41
URL: 
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31.txt
Status: 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/
Htmlized: 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31
Htmlized: 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb
Diff: 
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31

Abstract:
    In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks running
    outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier "802.11p")
    there is a need to define a few parameters such as the supported
    Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the header
    format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it, and
    others.  This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and IEEE
    802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on 802.11-OCB
    similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by using an
    Ethernet Adaptation Layer.

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

---

From: Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 20:25:02 +0100

Thanks a lot Alex and Nabil. I'll take a look at it in the next days.

During the meeting we discussed with Nabil that we need an e-mail
collecting all the issues from 6man reviews where you authors explain
how each of the issues has been addressed. Can you guys please send
that e-mail?

Thanks,

Carlos 

> _______________________________________________
> its mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

---

From: Nabil Benamar <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 20:27:46 +0100

Hi Carlos,

Sure. We'll send it soon!

Best regards
Nabil Benamar
-------------------
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---

From: Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 08:57:14 +0100

Great, thanks!

On Mon, 2018-11-19 at 20:27 +0100, Nabil Benamar wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 8:25 PM Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
> > > Following the discussion during presentation of the IPv6/OCB
> > slides
> > > by 
> > > has been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted
> > to
> > > the
> > > IETF repository.
> > > 
> > > Title:                Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE
> > 802.11
> > > Networks operating 
> > > in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set (IPv6-over-
> > 80211-
> > > OCB)
> > >     others.  This document describes these parameters for IPv6
> > and
> > > IEEE
> > >     802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on
> > 802.11-
> > > OCB

---

From: Nabil Benamar <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 17:52:52 +0100

Dear All,

Generally speaking, there was no substantial modification about ND.  There
were many clarifications, text improvements, all in the direction of
supporting the statement that ND works on OCB, and how it does so.

There were approximately 42 public emails, and about 10 in private, about
the ND topic, since the AD request for review to 6man in June 2018.

Following these ND-related discussions, the draft was updated from -26 to
-31.  One can use the 'diff' button on the GUI of tools.ietf.org to see the
precise text changes.

An abstract description of these ND-related changes is the following (most
recent first):

-31: o removed a 'MAY NOT' phrase about the possibility of having other
prefixes than the LL on the link between cars;

     o shortened and improved the paragraph about Mobile IPv6, now with
DNAv6;

     o improved the ND text about ND retransmissions with relationship to
packet loss;

     o changed the title of an appendix from 'EPD' to 'Protocol Layering';

     o improved the 'Aspects introduced by OCB' appendix with a few phrases
about the channel use and references.

-30: a clarification on the reliability of ND over OCB and over 802.11.

-29: added text in SLAAC section about opaque interface IDs and the risks
of not using them.

-28: improved the text about address generation from random MAC address,
including "the length of the Interface ID MAY be 118 decimal."

-26: o moved text from SLAAC section and from Design Considerations
       appendix about privacy into a new Privacy Considerations subsection
       of the Security section;

     o reformulated the SLAAC and IID sections to stress only LLs can use
EUI-64;

     o removed the "GeoIP" wireshark explanation;

     o reformulated SLAAC and LL sections;

     o added brief mention of need of use LLs;

     o clarified text about MAC address changes.

-25: improved text for IID formation for SLAAC, inserting recommendation
for RFC8064 before RFC2464.

-24: Addressed the comments on 6MAN: replaced a sentence about ND problem
with "is used over 802.11-OCB".

Here are some other specific comments received from Lorenzo Colliti and
Brian Carpenter.

Comment received from Lorenzo Colitti:

“I read the document but I don't understand how IPv6 over this type of
network will work. The document says that IPv6 ND over this link type is
unspecified. If ND is not specified, then how will communication work?

This is made worse by the fact that the document says "The procedure for
mapping IPv6 unicast addresses into Ethernet link-layer addresses is
described in [RFC4861]."  But RFC 4861 *is* neighbour discovery, which this
document says is unspecified on this link type.”

Answer:

Previous text in the draft:
    The Neighbor Discovery protocol (ND) [RFC4861] is used over
    802.11-OCB links.  The reliability of the ND protocol over 802.11-OCB
    is the reliability of the delivery of ND multicast messages.  This
    reliability is the same as the reliability of delivery of ND
    multicast messages over 802.11 links operated with a BSS ID.

Current text in version 31:

    The Neighbor Discovery protocol (ND) [RFC4861] is used over
    802.11-OCB links.  Due to lack of associations in 802.11-OCB
    unicast has the same reliability as multicast. The ND
    retransmissions are supposed to handle loss of unicast and multicast
    just as it does on 802.11 BSS.

Comment received from Brian Carpenter:

“The draft seems to say that even if address assignment succeeds,

neighbour discovery won't work, since multicast doesn't work either.”

Answer (with the help of Erik Nordmark):

OCB supports muticast just like normal 802.11.

There are not acknowledgements for unicast packets hence the loss
characteristics for unicast frames are the same as for multicast, but
that doesn't prevent neighbor discovery from being used.

The exact deployment (radio environment, speed of vehicles, etc) will
effect how useful it is for different applications, but that's out of
scope for the ip-over-foo specification.

Finally, I would like to thank Erik Nordmark for his help in clarifying and
rewording the remaining issues and ambiguous parts in the text.

Best regards
Nabil Benamar
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