Subject: Re: [ipwave] V2X and Mitsubishi

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 21:13:02 +0200

I learn from TV advertisement that Mitsubishi puts V2X on hybrid
rechargeable vehicles now on market.  It is a great news at first sight.
  Only VW announced similar things here until now (see below Car2X).

But, V2X means that the vehicle can plug into a variety of electric
sockets at home, on building, on grids... It does not mean it sends CAM
messages.  It does not even mean that it sends messages to the charging
spot.

Once again this V2X term means something entirely new I hear for the
first time.

I am not sure whether we want this term V2X better reflected in
draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-20 or that people at 3GPP want to
update their definition of V2X, or not.

With such huge disconnects on such simple things as the term V2X it
might be that there is little hope in progressing towards unification.

Alex

Le 02/03/2020 à 17:03, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
> A club in Austria tested the Car2X of VW Golf 8 and reported in 
> Austrian there 
> https://www.oeamtc.at/thema/verkehr/car-to-x-kommunikation-36583208
> 
> An English text pointing to that URL is this:
> 
>> Monday 24 of February 2020
>> 
>> The latest generation of the VW Golf is the first vehicle to be 
>> equipped with Car-to-X communication (C2X) as standard.
>> 
>> "This technology enables the car to exchange information with
>> other vehicles as well as with the infrastructure," explains ÖAMTC
>>  technician Friedrich Eppel.
>> 
>> In practice, this works - to put it simply - like this: If the 
>> Golf's sensors detect a danger or if an emergency braking
>> manoeuvre is initiated or the airbag is triggered in the event of
>> an accident, it automatically warns other vehicles in the vicinity
>> by radio signal. Conversely, it registers warnings and information 
>> coming from other vehicles or the infrastructure and passes them
>> on to the driver. While driving, for example, the driver is warned 
>> that an accident has occurred several hundred metres ahead of him.
>> 
>> The Mobility Club has investigated this system together with its 
>> partners - with promising results.
>> 
> On another related note, I learn that the online configurator 
> includes 'Car2X version High' as a series equipment (not an add on 
> more expensive) on all Golf 8 models advertised on the web in 
> France.
> 
> Finally, I am interested to learn whether VW Golf 8 Car2X
> understands the Road-Side Units deployed in France that beacon DENM
> and CAM messages to all cars on the road.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Le 14/01/2020 à 09:58, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
>> Thank you for the update.
>> 
>> I guess s/he would need to access the Internet in order to "sign 
>> in"(?)
>> 
>> Alex
>> 
>> Le 14/01/2020 à 07:48, Dr. Hans-Joachim Fischer a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Volkswagen confirmed to me that Golf 8 has an ITS station unit 
>>> with ITS-G5 built in. In order to get it activated the owner 
>>> needs to "sign in".
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hans-Joachim
>>> 
>>> Am 13.01.2020 um 17:38 schrieb Alexandre Petrescu:
>>>> the first hands-on reviews of the VW 8 are in the printed 
>>>> press: no sign of WLANp, nor ITS-G5 or C2C messaging as of
>>>> yet. It might be because the reviewer is not interested in
>>>> these aspects (no other mentioning of other connectivity
>>>> features like webradio or wifi on board or remote software
>>>> update) or it might be because these WLANp features are absent
>>>> from actual deployment.
>>>> 
>>>> the first VW Golf 8 is announced to be sold in France for mid 
>>>> 2020, with prices announced in March.
>>>> 
>>>> Le 04/12/2019 à 17:10, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
>>>>> I got to learn about VW Golf 8th generation (VW Golf 8, VW 8 
>>>>> for our discussion).
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct. 24th they announced it on the web; it says uniquely 
>>>>> (strangely) 'WLANp' and 'Car2X'.  These seem terms only use 
>>>>> by VW, while others say 802.11p or Car2Car Consortium or
>>>>> V2X. The announcement in French text says 'WiFi' instead of 
>>>>> 802.11p, which is wrong again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Some of the features in the announcement text make think 
>>>>> there is some Bluetooth and NFC in there as well
>>>>> (WeConnect), and also CarPlay, AndroidAuto.  I cant figure
>>>>> out whether there is SIM card inside, like in Tesla. (be it
>>>>> software or a typical hard sim).
>>>>> 
>>>>> VW 8 might hit the road in Spring or Summer 2020.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is not clear whether the Car2X/WLANp features are series 
>>>>> features, or extras to be paid for.  Other announcements in 
>>>>> America (Caddillac was that?) did the same, and the 11p was 
>>>>> something additional to be sold for a series car.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Once VW 8 is on the market, there are few places (Grenoble, 
>>>>> Paris area, Versailles) where I discussed with people and 
>>>>> might be interested to learn whether that VW 8 understands 
>>>>> the RSUs in these areas.
>>>>> 
>>>>> VW made a similar announcement of a series car 'Arteon' in 
>>>>> 2017 and later in 2018 that is controlled by infrastructure 
>>>>> (respect speed limits); that could only be with V2X. However,
>>>>> it did not materialize once the car hit the roads. Or at
>>>>> least I am not aware of that materialization.
>>>>> 
>>>>> A discussion I had with someone who knows someone explains 
>>>>> that a competitor of VW (Daimler) is more interested in the 
>>>>> cellular aspects (e.g. LTE-V2X, even if this term itself is 
>>>>> more of a VW term some times), and not at all in 802.11p, 
>>>>> which is itself not right (the right term is 802.11-OCB).
>>>>> 
>>>>> (a final note about cellular systems with V2X capabilities: 
>>>>> the features of cellular systems that are specific to cars 
>>>>> like direct V2V connectivity, or V2V2I, were announced many 
>>>>> times in the past for 2.5G, 3G and 4G; they were never put
>>>>> to market either).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alex
>>>>> 
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