Subject: [Ltru] Re: revised editor's copy online

From: "Doug Ewell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:29:40 -0700

Kent Karlsson <kentk at cs dot chalmers dot se> wrote:

> 1. You used en dash in the 10646 reference, and a single - in the
> 639-2 reference...

I agree that parallel constructions should be represented in a parallel
way.  Either both should use a single dash, or both should use a double
dash.  The same goes for cases where the HTML version contains an en
dash or em dash.  But as Mark said, this is not really a Last Call
showstopper, and could be handled by the draft editor(s).  And as Randy
said, RFCs aren't really allowed to have em dashes anyway.

> 2. Use ISO/IEC or ISO as "author", remove the date after the standards
> number, keeping it at the end (the repetition is annoying), just the
> year number. If it is an ISO/IEC standard, using just
> "International Oragization for Standardisation" as author would be
> inappropriate.

Could you provide a complete example of how you would like this to
appear?  Remember that xml2rfc requires explicit author, title, and date
fields.  Leaving the author out because the standard is called "ISO
something" won't work.

> 3. Include edition number as well (I see no reason not to), outside
> of the quoted title (it is not part of the title). Preferebly the
> standards number should be outside of (before) the quoted title too.

What goes inside quotes and what goes outside is not up to us.  We
specify text for the fields, and xml2rfc formats them.

> 4. Sort all the ISO/IEC (and ISO and IEC) references by number.
> I see no reason to do otherwise here (like grouping related standards
> together).

My opinion is that all references should be sorted mechanically, using
<?rfc sortrefs="yes" ?>.  This prevents manual errors and arguments.  It
does sort alphabetically, not numerically, which unfortunately results
in ISO15924 < ISO3166 < ISO639 rather than the other way around.  But at
least it's deterministic.

--
Doug Ewell
Fullerton, California
http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/

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---

From: Frank Ellermann <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 09:48:33 +0200

Doug Ewell wrote:

> as Mark said, this is not really a Last Call showstopper,
> and could be handled by the draft editor(s).  And as Randy

FWIW, new xml2rfc versions "translate" &mdash; into "--".
If you want it you're free to use it.

                           Bye, Frank

---

From: "Kent Karlsson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 16:12:15 +0200 (CEST)

> fields.  Leaving the author out because the standard is called "ISO

Well, if the tool does not check things that should go unchecked,
the XML exerpt below (and attached) should work. (I haven't installed
the xml2rfc tool...)

> specify text for the fields, and xml2rfc formats them.

Bad tool, bad tool! ;-)

> least it's deterministic.

I've sorted them.

I also moved non-normative references to the informative references
section.

In addition I noticed a problem. ISO 3166:1988 has been divided into
parts, out of which ISO 3166-1:1997 and ISO 3166-3:1999 seem to be
the ones to reference.

    /kent k

<references title="Normative References">

<reference anchor="ISO646"><front>
   <title>Information technology &mdash; ISO 7-bit coded character set for
information interchange</title>
   <author><organization>ISO/IEC 646:1991</organization></author>
   <date year="third edition"/>
   <abstract><t>This standard defines an International Reference Version
(IRV) which corresponds exactly to what is widely known as ASCII or
US-ASCII. ISO/IEC 646 was based on the earlier standard ECMA-6. ECMA
has maintained its standard up to date with respect to ISO/IEC 646 and
makes an electronic copy available at
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-006.htm</t></abstract>
</front></reference>

<reference anchor="ISO639-1"><front>
   <title>Codes for the representation of names of languages &mdash; Part
1: Alpha-2 code</title>
   <author><organization>ISO 639-1:2002</organization></author>
   <date year="first edition"/>
</front></reference>

<reference anchor="ISO639-2"><front>
   <title>Codes for the representation of names of languages &mdash; Part
2: Alpha-3 code</title>
   <author><organization>ISO 639-2:1998</organization></author>
   <date year="first edition"/>
</front></reference>

<!--
<reference anchor="ISO3166"><front>
   <title>Codes for the representation of names of countries</title>
   <author><organization>ISO 3166:1988</organization></author>
   <date year="third edition"/>
</front></reference>
-->

<reference anchor="ISO3166-1"><front>
   <title>Codes for the representation of names of countries and their
subdivisions &mdash; Part 1: Country codes</title>
   <author><organization>ISO 3166-1:1997</organization></author>
   <date year="first edition"/>
</front></reference>

<reference anchor="ISO3166-3"><front>
   <title>Codes for the representation of names of countries and their
subdivisions &mdash Part 3: Code for formerly used names of
countries</title>
   <author><organization>ISO 3166-1:1999</organization></author>
   <date year="first edition"/>
</front></reference>

<reference anchor="ISO10646"><front>
   <title>Information technology &mdash; Universal multiple-octet coded
character set (UCS)</title>
   <author><organization>ISO/IEC 10646:2003</organization></author>
   <date year="first edition"/>
   <abstract><t>The 2003 version is the first merged edition of 10646;
older versions came in two parts.</t></abstract>
</front></reference>

<reference anchor="ISO15924"><front>
   <title>Information and documentation &mdash; Codes for the
representation of names of scripts</title>
   <author><organization>ISO 15924:2004</organization></author>
   <date year="first edition"/>
</front></reference>

&rfc2026;

  &rfc2028;

  &rfc2047;

&rfc2119;

<reference anchor="RFC2234bis"><front>
   <title>Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF</title>
   <author initials="D" surname="Crocker" fullname="Dave
Crocker"><organization/></author>
   <author initials="P" surname="Overell" fullname="Paul
Overell"><organization/></author>
   <date year="2005" month="03" day="09"/>
   <abstract><t>Internet technical specifications often need to define a
format syntax. Over the years a modified version of Backus-Naur Form
(BNF), called Augmented BNF (ABNF), has been popular among many
Internet specifications. The current specification documents ABNF. It
balances compactness and simplicity, with reasonable representational
power. The differences between standard BNF and ABNF involve naming
rules, repetition, alternatives, order-independence, and value ranges.
This specification also supplies additional rule definitions and
encoding for a core lexical analyzer of the type common to several
Internet specifications.</t></abstract>
</front>
<seriesInfo name="Internet-Draft" value="draft-crocker-abnf-rfc2234bis-00"/>
<format type="TXT"
target="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-crocker-abnf-rfc2234bis-00.txt"/>
</reference>

&rfc2860;

&rfc3339;

<reference anchor="UN_M.49"
target="http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49.htm"><front>
   <title>Standard Country or Area Codes for Statistical Use</title>
   <author><organization>United Nations Statistics
Division</organization></author>
   <date year="2004" month="03" day="08"/>
</front>
<seriesInfo name="UN" value="Standard Country or Area Codes for
Statistical Use, revision 4 (United Nations publication, sales no.
98.XVII.9"/>
</reference>

</references>

<references title="Informative References">

<reference anchor="iso639.principles"
target="http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/iso639jac_n3r.html"><front>
   <title>Working principles for ISO 639 maintenance</title>
   <author><organization>ISO 639 Joint Advisory
Committee</organization></author>
   <date year="2000" month="03" day="8"/>
</front></reference>

<reference anchor="record-jar"><front>
   <title>The Art of Unix Programming</title>
   <author fullname="Eric Steven Raymond" initials="E"
surname="Raymond"><organization/></author>
   <date year="2004"/>
   <note title="Note about record-jar:"><t>This book contains the
reference to the record-jar format in chapter 5. An online version is
here: http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch05s02.html#id2906931.</t></note>
</front></reference>

&rfc1766;

&rfc2231;

&rfc2434;

&rfc2781;

&rfc3066;

&rfc3552;

<reference anchor="initial-registry"
target="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-initial-02.txt"><front>
   <title abbrev="draft-ietf-ltru-initial">Initial Language Subtag
Registry</title>
   <author initials="D" surname="Ewell" fullname="Doug Ewell"
role="editor"><organization>LTRU Working Group</organization></author>
   <date year="2005" month="07" day="10"/>
</front></reference>

<reference anchor="Unicode"
target="http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.1.0"><front>
   <title>The Unicode Standard, Version 4.1.0</title>
   <author><organization>The Unicode Consortium</organization></author>
   <date year="2005" month="03" day="31"/>
</front></reference>

<reference anchor="XML10"
target="http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml-20040204"><front>
   <title>Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.0 (third edition)</title>
   <author fullname="Tim Bray et al." initials="T" surname="Bray (et
al.)"><organization/></author>
   <date year="2004" month="02" day="04"/>
</front></reference>

<reference anchor="XMLSchema" target="
http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/"><front>
   <title>XML Schema &mdash Part 2: Datatypes (second edition)</title>
   <author initials="P" surname="Biron" fullname="Paul V. Biron"
role="editor"><organization/></author>
   <author initials="A" surname="Malhotra" fullname="Ashok Malhotra"
role="editor"><organization/></author>
   <date year="2004" month="10" day="28"/>
</front></reference>

</references>

---

From: "Doug Ewell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 07:30:00 -0700

> the XML exerpt below (and attached) should work. (I haven't installed

This works if you buy info the semantic notion that "ISO/IEC 646:1991"
and such are authors, or organizations.

Randy, is this (a) acceptable and (b) recommended?  I wouldn't mind
doing this if it would end the thread.

>> My opinion is that all references should be sorted mechanically,
>> using <?rfc sortrefs="yes" ?>.  This prevents manual errors and
>> arguments.  It does sort alphabetically, not numerically, which
>> unfortunately results in ISO15924 < ISO3166 < ISO639 rather than the
>> other way around.  But at least it's deterministic.
>
> I've sorted them.

You've placed "ISO646" before "ISO639-1" and "ISO639-2", which is
neither alphabetically nor numerically correct.  This demonstrates what
I said about "preventing manual errors."  Can't we just let the tool do
its job?

> I also moved non-normative references to the informative
> references section.

I thought that had already been resolved in draft-registry.  I know it
has been in draft-initial.

---

From: "Kent Karlsson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 17:06:48 +0200 (CEST)

> I said about "preventing manual errors."  Can't we just let the tool do

Sure.

  /k