Subject: [Ltru] Re: Google and marking the languages

From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:26:42 +0100

On Wed, Nov 22, 2006 at 01:50:33PM +0000,
 Dave Pawson <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 46 lines which said:

> Does this group (or the others with similar interests) ever make a
> marketing effort?

> Where is the list of ten good reasons to id the language?

> Where should those who see the benefit point others to, the 'sales pitch'?

I am not a salesman and I did not find ten reasons, only three, but
here we are:

http://ltru.generic-nic.net/why-tagging.html

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From: Addison Phillips <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:20:01 -0800

You might want to look at some of the W3C GEO material. For example:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/#ri20050208.091505539

(There list is very similar to yours)

Addison

-- 
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.

---

From: "Mark Davis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:36:25 -0800

I think the key issue is that language tagging, like charset tagging, can be
reliable in controlled environments. For example, if documents on the web
are being indexed inside a search engine, then once they are properly
tagged, that tag can follow them everywhere and be used in a wide variety of
processing. So even just from that viewpoint, having a reliable, standard
mechanism for language tagging is very valuable.

The problem is that the web *in general* (including XML documents) is
completely unreliably tagged. Because of that, anyone doing processing of
arbitrary documents is forced to take an external document's tag as being
little more than a hint, one that can be completely disregarded if it
appears to disagree with the actual contents.

It is a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem for the web in general. People tend
add information to web documents IF the results of adding it matter; the
page displays better, or is processed better.

   - Adding correct language tags right now doesn't have much impact, so
   people don't add correct language tags.
   - So search engines, etc, have to disregard the information that is
   there (except in controlled environments).
   - So there isn't much impact to not adding correct language tags.
   - &c.

I don't think it is deadlocked. We are seeing more pages be tagged correctly
over time, and the higher the percentage, the stronger a weight can be given
to the hint. However, I don't know that we'll ever get to the point where
the language tag can be completely relied upon for general web documents.

Mark

-- 
Mark

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From: "Debbie Garside" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:59:57 -0000

I believe I have already given my considered opinion on this topic... as a
marketing consultant (my original trade) with some 24 years experience...
but hey ho, each to his own!  
 
Standards need marketing the same as any other product or service!
 
Debbie

  _____  

From: Mark Davis [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: 24 January 2007 17:36
To: Addison Phillips
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Google and marking the languages

*	Adding correct language tags right now doesn't have much impact, so
people don't add correct language tags. 

*	So search engines, etc, have to disregard the information that is
there (except in controlled environments). 

*	So there isn't much impact to not adding correct language tags. 

*	&c.

Mark

Addison

Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
>  Dave Pawson <[email-masked]  <mailto:[email-masked]> >
wrote

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-- 
Mark

---

From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:33:58 +0100

On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:20:01AM -0800,
 Addison Phillips <[email-masked]> wrote 

>    http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/#ri20050208.091505539

Thanks for all the comments, an improved version is online. Advices on
style and gramamr are also welcome (English is not my main language).

Feel free to use it for marketing efforts :-)