Subject: [Ltru] early proto draft-15...

From: "Phillips, Addison" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 16:35:28 -0700

All (editor hat firmly in place),

I have just now posted on Inter-Locale an early prototype of draft-15 restoring extlang. A half-hearted attempt to put my proposed compromise is also in this version. I have also included the proposal to incorporate ISO 639-5. I have not included Mark's proposed "deprecated at birth" proposal for extlangs (too late for this pass and too soon to know the reaction). This SHOULD NOT be taken to imply any consensus determination or personal position on any of these proposals: it is merely the editors trying to get the text under control and give us something to work from. This text is subject to change or update, although I will alert the list when I update the server. Other editorial and flow changes have been incorporated here as well.

The links are to "Editor's Copy" on the home page or:

  http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-15.xml
  http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-15.txt
  http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-15.html

The diffs are:

  http://tinyurl.com/3whwwg  (hwdiff)
  http://tinyurl.com/54zlqq  (wdiff, aka side-by-side)

Comments welcome.

Addison (for the editors)

Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Lab126

Internationalization is not a feature.
It is an architecture.

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From: John Cowan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 18:53:59 -0400

Phillips, Addison scripsit:

> The diffs are: > >   http://tinyurl.com/3whwwg  (hwdiff)

This doesn't work yet, because you haven't submitted -15 yet.

> Comments welcome.

2.1:  s/the US-ASCII repertoire/the relevant part of the US-ASCII
repertoire/.  A long-standing bug.

2.2.2: s/identify languages/identify certain languages/.

2.2.4, bullet 3E: refers to 4645 rather than 4645 and 4645bis.

2.2.5: need to explain here that "Prefix" is not to be taken literally:
it contains subtags that must appear before the given variant.  This is
explained elsewhere, but needs to be here.

2.2.9: The line "Language tags may be well-formed in terms of syntax
but not valid in terms of content" should be moved to the start of the
2nd graf.

2.2.9: The next-to-last graf's sentences are in the wrong order:

	Users MUST NOT assign and use their own subtags, other than in
	private-use sequences (such as "en-x-personal").  Not only is
	such assignment nonconformatn, it also risks collision with a
	possible future assignment.  However, private-use ISO subtags
	may be used instead of private-use sequences.

3.1.1: in "encoding, unless otherwise indicated, fields" it is not clear
which phrase the "unless otherwise indicated" relates to.  Move it to
the end of the sentence.

3.1.4: s/corresponds to the Reference Name/corresponds whenever possible
to the Reference Name/.  Collective language codes don't have an ISO
639-3 Reference Name, so this guarantee never worked anyhow.

3.1.6:	Bullet points 1 and 2 look fundamentally the same.  In bullet
point 3, s/encoded/encoded by an ISO standard/.

3.4, bullet point 11.2:  s/MUST in a/MUST contain a/.

3.6:  s/ISO defines a for additions to/ISO defines a registration
authority for additions to/.

4.1.1: examples at the end need updating.

4.1.2: this whole section needs updating.

4.3: example about "both zh and nan" no longer fits.

I didn't review 4.4 or later sections, but I checked the diffs and didn't
see any issues.  Appendix B needs updating to show some extlangs used
both with and without lower-level subtags.

-- 
There are three kinds of people in the world:   John Cowan
those who can count,                            [email-masked]
and those who can't.
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From: "Phillips, Addison" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:56:31 -0700

> This doesn't work yet, because you haven't submitted -15 yet.

Sure it works: both documents are pulled from the Inter-Locale server copy. Perhaps you tried when my server was down or something?

I'll reply to the content comments under separate cover.

Addison

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From: John Cowan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 19:20:25 -0400

Phillips, Addison scripsit:

> Sure it works: both documents are pulled from the Inter-Locale server
> copy. Perhaps you tried when my server was down or something?

Huh.  It works now.  Before I was getting all the words in -14
crossed out, as if -15 was empty.

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From: "Phillips, Addison" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 16:25:36 -0700

(editor hat on)

Note that changes noted below are not posted at this time.
> repertoire/.  A long-standing bug.

DONE.

> 2.2.2: s/identify languages/identify certain languages/.

DONE.

> 2.2.4, bullet 3E: refers to 4645 rather than 4645 and 4645bis.

NOT DONE (pending information)

Maybe. Will 4645bis repeat the relevant text? My impression was that 4645 has the Date A/Date B/etc. stuff and 4645bis has newer rules for registry restart. Doug?

> explained elsewhere, but needs to be here.

DONE.

> but not valid in terms of content" should be moved to the start of

DONE, but I moved it after the first sentence in the second para. That way the definition of well-formed occurs and then the explication that well-formed is not everything.

>         may be used instead of private-use sequences.

DONE. A substantial rewrite was needed here:

<t>Subtags designated for private use or private-use sequences introduced by the 'x' subtag are available for cases in which no assigned subtags are available and registration is not a suitable option. For example, one might use a tag such as "no-QQ", where 'QQ' is one of a range of private-use ISO 3166-1 codes to indicate an otherwise-undefined region. Users MUST NOT assign and use subtags that do not appear in the registry other than in private-use sequences (such the subtag 'personal' in the tag "en-x-personal"). Not only is such assignment nonconformant, it also risks collision with a future possible assignment or registration.</t>

> which phrase the "unless otherwise indicated" relates to.  Move it

DONE:

<t>Although the file format uses the UTF-8 encoding fields are restricted to the printable characters from the <xref target="ISO646">US-ASCII</xref> repertoire unless otherwise indicated in the specific field description below.</t>

> 639-3 Reference Name, so this guarantee never worked anyhow.

DONE.

> point 3, s/encoded/encoded by an ISO standard/.

The second one should say " Subtags (other than language codes) taken from codes or values that have been withdrawn in favor of a new code."

> 3.4, bullet point 11.2:  s/MUST in a/MUST contain a/.

(groan)

DONE

> authority for additions to/.

DONE.

> 4.1.1: examples at the end need updating.

Not done yet.

> 4.1.2: this whole section needs updating.

Agreed. Not done yet.

> 4.3: example about "both zh and nan" no longer fits.

DONE. Used 'no'/'nn' are a replacement.

> both with and without lower-level subtags.

Agreed.

Addison