Subject: [mediactrl] New version of Control Framework - draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02

From: "Chris Boulton" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 10:50:35 +0100

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi all,

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>A new version of the SIP Control Framework has been
submitted.  Until it appears in the archives it can be retrieved from the
following links:-

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><a rel="nofollow"
href="http://www.ubiquitysoftware.com/ietf/draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02.txt">http://www.ubiquitysoftware.com/ietf/draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02.txt

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><a rel="nofollow"
href="http://www.ubiquitysoftware.com/ietf/draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02.html">http://www.ubiquitysoftware.com/ietf/draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02.html

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Changes include a new mechanism for control channel
and SIP dialog association + a detailed call flow.  The authors would
appreciate as much feedback as possible to help consolidate this version.

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Best Regards,

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Chris.

<span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

Information contained in this e-mail and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee only, and may contain confidential information of Ubiquity Software Corporation. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the addressee, please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this email.  Unless otherwise expressly agreed in writing signed by an officer of Ubiquity Software Corporation, nothing in this communication shall be deemed to be legally binding. Thank-you

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 20:25:22 +0100

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hi Chris,

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> 

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Some feedback on the SIP Control Framework
draft-02:

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> 

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>1) General comment, sort of. I believe the
placeholder Section 4 Locating External Server Resources should be removed, and
the related text in Section 3 on Caller Preferences/Callee Capabilities etc. as
well.

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>    I agree that this is an important
topic, and there is general interest in addressing it (somewhere). However, my
concerns about carrying it in this document fall along two lines:
    a) The current direction in the draft seems to be pushing along the lines
of RFCs 3840/3841 and SIP Proxying, which I believe is reasonable but too
exclusive. The scope should be extended to acknowledge multiple solutions that
could be used based on particular needs. I don’t think there’s a ‘one
approach fits all’ solution here; and if there is, then it’s not
the 3840/3841 SIP Proxy one. 

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>   b) It will be a sizeable topic in its
own right, so should be separated out. (Divide and conquer/manage.)
There may be some implied corollary comments, having to do with how the AS
knows which MS it’s talking to over which control channel, which I
believe is an issue to include and address, but is only necessary with the use
of certain MS resource location approaches and not others.

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> 

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>2) There were a few comments I made
earlier (toward the end of my Feb. 15 email) that I still feel strongly about
and I don’t think are addressed. They are resupplied here:

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial>   A)
*Must* the control channel be established before a call leg is brought to the
Media Server? The Control Framework for SIP draft seems to only talk about
setting up the control channel before a call leg is brought to the MS. It might
be useful to allow for both, don’t know whether it’s problematic. Either
way, it should be clarified.

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial>  B)
Can a single control channel be used to control multiple calls at the MS (using
the same control package)? Or in Garland’s
jargon, a ‘long-lived’ control channel? I believe that would be desirable
to allow for, and should be explicitly addressed.

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> C) Can different control packages be
run over the same control channel? For example, one for simultaneous calls for
IVR and another for conferences? I would favor that flexibility, don’t
know whether it’s problematic.  Either way, it should be clarified. 

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> 

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Cheers,

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> 

<font size=2
  color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;
  color:blue'>Gary<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial>

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> 

<font size=3
face="Times New Roman">

<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:<font size=2
face=Tahoma>
[email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] <span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of Chris Boulton
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 5:52
AM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: McGlashan, Scott; Tim
Melanchuk; Asher Shiratzky
Subject: [mediactrl] New version
of Control Framework - draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02

<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> 

<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>

<span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>Information contained in this
e-mail and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee only, and
may contain confidential information of Ubiquity Software Corporation. All
unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited.  If
you are not the addressee, please notify the sender immediately and destroy all
copies of this email.  Unless otherwise expressly agreed in writing signed
by an officer of Ubiquity Software Corporation, nothing in this communication
shall be deemed to be legally binding. Thank-you

---

From: "Chris Boulton" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 08:56:10 +0100

<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Gary – many thanks for the comments. 
More ‘in-line’.

<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 

<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Chris.

<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 

<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----
From:
[email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: 10 May 2006<font
size=2 face=Tahoma> 20:00<font
size=2 face=Tahoma>
To:
[email-masked]
Subject: RE: [mediactrl] New
version of Control Framework - draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02

<font size=3
face="Times New Roman"> 

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial>Hi
Chris,

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial> 

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial>Some
feedback on the SIP Control Framework draft-02:

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial> 

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial>1)
General comment, sort of. I believe the placeholder Section 4 Locating External
Server Resources should be removed, and the related text in Section 3 on Caller
Preferences/Callee Capabilities etc. as well.

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial>   
I agree that this is an important topic, and there is general interest in
addressing it (somewhere). However, my concerns about carrying it in this
document fall along two lines:
    a) The current direction in the draft seems to be pushing
along the lines of RFCs 3840/3841 and SIP Proxying, which I believe is
reasonable but too exclusive. The scope should be extended to acknowledge
multiple solutions that could be used based on particular needs. I don’t
think there’s a ‘one approach fits all’ solution here; and if
there is, then it’s not the 3840/3841 SIP Proxy one. 

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial>  
b) It will be a sizeable topic in its own right, so should be separated out.
(Divide and conquer/manage.)
There may be some implied corollary comments, having to do with how the AS
knows which MS it’s talking to over which control channel, which I
believe is an issue to include and address, but is only necessary with the use
of certain MS resource location approaches and not others.

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial> 

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] Yes – totally agree.  To be
honest you are correct in that this was only ever really meant to be a
placeholder and the intention was that if this work had legs it would become a separate
topic for discussion and documentation.  I can easily take it out or leave
it now that you know it is simply a pointer.

<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial>2) There
were a few comments I made earlier (toward the end of my Feb. 15 email) that I
still feel strongly about and I don’t think are addressed. They are
resupplied here:

<font size=2
color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>   A) *Must* the control channel be established before a
call leg is brought to the Media Server? The Control Framework for SIP draft
seems to only talk about setting up the control channel before a call leg is
brought to the MS. It might be useful to allow for both, don’t know
whether it’s problematic. Either way, it should be clarified.

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> 

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] I don’t see why you MUST
have a control channel established.  It would just mean that you can’t
issue any commands on that media stream.  Does that seem ok to everyone? At
the end of the day we are talking about two mechanisms that are not dependant
on each other.   I will clarify the text in the next revision if
no-one opposes.

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial> 

<font size=2
color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>  B) Can a single control channel be used to control multiple
calls at the MS (using the same control package)?

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> 

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] It most definitely can –
that is the primary concept + the reason the dialog xml is provided. 
Remember that the control frameworks intention is to be agnostic – so if
you take a look at the IVR package you will see how it can import the dialog
XML schema from the framework and reference multiple calls on one control
channel.

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> 

<font size=2
color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'> Or in <span
  style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Garland<font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>’s jargon, a ‘long-lived’ control channel? I
believe that would be desirable to allow for, and should be explicitly
addressed.

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> 

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] I will clarify the text
where possible BUT this really is part of a package to make use of the channel
how it wants.  We create a SIP dialog which results in a control chancel being
established – you tear it down the control channel goes as well.  If
in a control package this is long lived then so be it – just don’t tear
down the SIP dialog.

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial> 

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial> C)
Can different control packages be run over the same control channel?

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'> 

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] Definitely.

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'> 

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial> For
example, one for simultaneous calls for IVR and another for conferences?

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'> 

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] Correct.

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'> 

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial> I
would favor that flexibility, don’t know whether it’s problematic.
 Either way, it should be clarified. 

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial> 

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] I will take a look at the text.  It definitely
talks about negotiating all of the packages that CAN be used on a particular control
channel (and the BNF supports this).  It is intended that ‘1>’
control packages MUST be included and ANY of them can be used on a control
channel.  The individual CONTROL messages are associated to a specific
Control Package by the ‘Control-Package’ header at the framework
level – which can only contain one value. 

<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial>Cheers,

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial> 

<font size=2 color=blue
  face=Arial>Gary

<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial> 

<font
size=3 face="Times New Roman">

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:<font
size=2 face=Tahoma>
To:
[email-masked]

<font size=3
face="Times New Roman"> 

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi all,

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>A new version of the SIP
Control Framework has been submitted.  Until it appears in the archives it
can be retrieved from the following links:-

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><a rel="nofollow"
href="http://www.ubiquitysoftware.com/ietf/draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02.txt">http://www.ubiquitysoftware.com/ietf/draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02.txt

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><a rel="nofollow"
href="http://www.ubiquitysoftware.com/ietf/draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02.html">http://www.ubiquitysoftware.com/ietf/draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02.html

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Changes include a new
mechanism for control channel and SIP dialog association + a detailed call
flow.  The authors would appreciate as much feedback as possible to help
consolidate this version.

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Best Regards,

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Chris.

<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 

<font size=3
face="Times New Roman">

<span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>Information contained in this
e-mail and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee only, and may
contain confidential information of Ubiquity Software Corporation. All
unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited.  If
you are not the addressee, please notify the sender immediately and destroy all
copies of this email.  Unless otherwise expressly agreed in writing signed
by an officer of Ubiquity Software Corporation, nothing in this communication
shall be deemed to be legally binding. Thank-you

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 15:18:38 +0100

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thanks, Chris.

<span style='font-size:

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>All sounds good to me. I would personally
still lean toward taking out the placeholder section on “Locating …
Resources”, or at most, if the section stays, say something very brief
and generic that acknowledges the topic but says methods are not addressed in
this document.

<span style='font-size:

<span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Regarding the very last item, about
running different control packages over the same control channel, where you
commented <span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>. “ It definitely talks about negotiating all of
the packages that CAN be used on a particular control channel (and the BNF
supports this).” ,<font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial> I probably
wasn’t reading closely enough. Didn’t know whether the “can”
had the sense of “I the AS will do any *one* of these” or “I
the AS might do any *subset* of these”. 

<span style='font-size:

<span style='font-size:

<span style='font-size:

<font size=2

<span style='font-size:

<font size=3
face="Times New Roman">

<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:<font size=2
face=Tahoma> Chris Boulton
[mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 3:58
AM
To: Munson,Gary
 A (Gary);
[email-masked]
Subject: RE: [mediactrl] New
version of Control Framework - draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-02

<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> 

<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Gary – many thanks for the
comments.  More ‘in-line’.

<span style='font-size:

<span style='font-size:

<span style='font-size:

<span style='font-size:

<span
bold'>On Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: 10 May 2006 20:00

<span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> 

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hi Chris,

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> 

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Some feedback on the SIP
Control Framework draft-02:

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> 

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>1) General comment, sort
of. I believe the placeholder Section 4 Locating External Server Resources
should be removed, and the related text in Section 3 on Caller
Preferences/Callee Capabilities etc. as well.

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>    I
agree that this is an important topic, and there is general interest in

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>   b) It will
be a sizeable topic in its own right, so should be separated out. (Divide and
conquer/manage.)
There may be some implied corollary comments, having to do with how the AS
knows which MS it’s talking to over which control channel, which I
believe is an issue to include and address, but is only necessary with the use
of certain MS resource location approaches and not others.

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] Yes – totally agree.  To be
honest you are correct in that this was only ever really meant to be a
placeholder and the intention was that if this work had legs it would become a
separate topic for discussion and documentation.  I can easily take it out
or leave it now that you know it is simply a pointer.

<span style='font-size:

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>2) There were a few
comments I made earlier (toward the end of my Feb. 15 email) that I still feel
strongly about and I don’t think are addressed. They are resupplied here:

<font size=2

<font size=2 color=navy

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] I don’t see why you
MUST have a control channel established.  It would just mean that you
can’t issue any commands on that media stream.  Does that seem ok to
everyone? At the end of the day we are talking about two mechanisms that are
not dependant on each other.   I will clarify the text in the next
revision if no-one opposes.

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial> 

<font size=2

<font size=2 color=navy

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] It most definitely can
– that is the primary concept + the reason the dialog xml is
provided.  Remember that the control frameworks intention is to be
agnostic – so if you take a look at the IVR package you will see how it
can import the dialog XML schema from the framework and reference multiple
calls on one control channel.

<font size=2 color=navy

<font size=2
color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'> Or in Garland’s
jargon, a ‘long-lived’ control channel? I believe that would be
desirable to allow for, and should be explicitly addressed.

<font size=2 color=navy

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] I will clarify the text
where possible BUT this really is part of a package to make use of the channel
how it wants.  We create a SIP dialog which results in a control chancel
being established – you tear it down the control channel goes as well.
 If in a control package this is long lived then so be it – just
don’t tear down the SIP dialog.

<font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial> 

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> C) Can different
control packages be run over the same control channel?

<span

<span

<span

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> For example, one
for simultaneous calls for IVR and another for conferences?

<span

<span

<span

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> I would favor that
flexibility, don’t know whether it’s problematic.  Either way,
it should be clarified. 

<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 

<span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>[Chris Boulton] I will take a look at the text.  It
definitely talks about negotiating all of the packages that CAN be used on a
particular control channel (and the BNF supports this).  It is intended
that ‘1>’ control packages MUST be included and ANY of them can
be used on a control channel.  The individual CONTROL messages are
associated to a specific Control Package by the ‘Control-Package’
header at the framework level – which can only contain one value. 

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style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Cheers,

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 w:st="on"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
  font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Gary

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<span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Changes include a new
mechanism for control channel and SIP dialog association + a detailed call
flow.  The authors would appreciate as much feedback as possible to <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">help consolidate this version.

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