Subject: [MEDIACTRL] Frameworks, Frameworks, and More Frameworks

From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:51:27 -0500

First, a call for consensus.  We would like to confirm the sentiment in the
room in Chicago, that both of the following documents will be the basis for
work group items.

draft-melanchuk-mediactrl-framework-00 is
An Architectural Framework for Media Server Control

draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-05 is
A Control Framework for the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)

[ ] No Objection
[ ] Object (Must explain why)

As chair, I will fall on my sword here.  Since the beginning of the Bar
BOFs, we tend to have multiple documents with different names talking about
the same thing (anyone remember the Requirements and Framework documents?).
We have had multiple documents with similar names talking about different
things.  Well, it is time to disambiguate this latter case.

To reduce confusion, the Architectural Framework will be called:
draft-ietf-mediactrl-architecture
and the Control Framework will be called:
draft-ietf-mediactrl-sip-control-framework

Editors, in the To: field, make a note of this

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---

From: Lorenzo Miniero <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:50:48 +0200

Hi Eric,

No objection at all from me on both documents. I personally do believe that 
Chris' framework document is an excellent way to deal with the MediaCtrl 
protocol needs.

Lorenzo

On Wednesday 01 August 2007 16:51:27 Eric Burger wrote:
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> have received this message in error, please immediately return this by
> email and then delete it.
>
>

-- 
Lorenzo Miniero, Junior Researcher
Dipartimento di Informatica e Sistemistica
Università degli Studi di Napoli "Federico II"
Via Claudio 21 -- 80125 Napoli (Italy)
Phone: +390817683821 - Fax: +390817683816
Email: [email-masked]

---

From: Simon Pietro Romano <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:09:38 +0200

Dear Eric/all,

here is my 'sentiment'...

> A Control Framework for the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)
[X] No Objection

Simon

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                 Computer Science Department 
        Phone: +39 081 7683823 -- Fax: +39 081 7684219
                e-mail: [email-masked]

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From: "Mary Barnes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:51:50 -0500

[X] No Objection

Mary.

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Burger [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:51 AM
To: [email-masked]; Tim Melanchuk; Chris Boulton
Subject: [MEDIACTRL] Frameworks, Frameworks, and More Frameworks

First, a call for consensus.  We would like to confirm the sentiment in
the
room in Chicago, that both of the following documents will be the basis
for
work group items.

[ ] No Objection

As chair, I will fall on my sword here.  Since the beginning of the Bar
BOFs, we tend to have multiple documents with different names talking
about
the same thing (anyone remember the Requirements and Framework
documents?).
We have had multiple documents with similar names talking about
different
things.  Well, it is time to disambiguate this latter case.

Notice:  This email message, together with any attachments, may contain
information  of  BEA Systems,  Inc.,  its subsidiaries  and  affiliated
entities,  that may be confidential,  proprietary,  copyrighted  and/or
legally privileged, and is intended solely for the use of the individual
or entity named in this message. If you are not the intended recipient,
and have received this message in error, please immediately return this
by email and then delete it.

---

From: "DRAGE, Keith \(Keith\)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:58:56 +0200

As SIP WG co-chair I will have to object to the adoption of
draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-05 as a baseline draft in mediactrl
as it does not conform to RFC 3427.

Essentially the current document is more than a framework document, and
it is where it goes above the framework document that the problem
starts.

It defines new SIP option tags, and response codes. Section 2.1 of RFC
3427 states:

   The IETF SIP Working Group has been chartered to be the "owner" of
   the SIP protocol [3], as long as the working group exists.  All
   changes or extensions to SIP must first exist as SIP Working Group
   documents.  The SIP Working group is charged with being the guardian
   of the SIP protocol for the Internet, and therefore should only
   extend or change the SIP protocol when there are compelling reasons
   to do so.

   Documents that must be handled by the SIP working group include new
   SIP methods, new SIP option tags, new response codes, and new
   standards track SIP headers.  With the exception of "P-" headers
   described in Section 4.1, all SIP extensions must be standards track
   and must be developed in the IETF based upon requirements provided by
   the SIPPING Working Group.

I would also note that it appears to be intending to define new SDP.
While there is not an equivalent to RFC 3427 covering SDP, I also think
it would be safer if new SDP was defined in MMUSIC.

The reason these need to come to the protocol groups for development of
the protocol is that there may be other similar requirements from
elsewhere that also need to be met by an extension, and therefore any
solution may need to be appropriate to those other requirements as well
as those of mediactrl. For example, there may be other usages of a
keep-alive mechanism outside of mediactrl.

I consider that what you need to do here is remove the SIP and SDP
protocol extensions from the document, except by reference other
documents, thus it does become a proper framework document. MEDIACTRL
then needs to develop a set of requirements for the protocol extensions
it needs in SIP and SDP (either within the framework document or as a
separate document), and pass those requirements to the SIP WG and MMUSIC
WG, who will then develop the appropriate extension documents.

Once you have done this, I do not have an issue with the document.

My skim of draft-melanchuk-mediactrl-framework-00 did not find any
similar problem, although that skim would have been made easier if it
had included the IANA considerations section.

Regards

Keith

> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 3:51 PM
> First, a call for consensus.  We would like to confirm the 
> sentiment in the room in Chicago, that both of the following 
> documents will be the basis for work group items.
> 
> draft-melanchuk-mediactrl-framework-00 is An Architectural 
> Framework for Media Server Control
> 
> draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-05 is A Control Framework 
> for the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)
> 
> [ ] No Objection
> As chair, I will fall on my sword here.  Since the beginning 
> of the Bar BOFs, we tend to have multiple documents with 
> different names talking about the same thing (anyone remember 
> the Requirements and Framework documents?).
> We have had multiple documents with similar names talking 
> about different things.  Well, it is time to disambiguate 
> this latter case.
> 
> Notice:  This email message, together with any attachments, 
> may contain information  of  BEA Systems,  Inc.,  its 
> subsidiaries  and  affiliated entities,  that may be 
> confidential,  proprietary,  copyrighted  and/or legally 
> privileged, and is intended solely for the use of the 
> individual or entity named in this message. If you are not 
> the intended recipient, and have received this message in 
> error, please immediately return this by email and then delete it.
> 
>

---

From: "MUNSON, GARY A (GARY A)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 09:23:15 -0400

No objection.  Thanks.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Burger [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:51 AM
To: [email-masked]; Tim Melanchuk; Chris Boulton
Subject: [MEDIACTRL] Frameworks, Frameworks, and More Frameworks

[ ] No Objection

---

From: "Haluska, John J" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 09:47:59 -0400

Eric

No Objection.

Also, I think the new naming is quite helpful.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Burger [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:51 AM
To: [email-masked]; Tim Melanchuk; Chris Boulton
Subject: [MEDIACTRL] Frameworks, Frameworks, and More Frameworks

[ ] No Objection

---

From: "Rafferty, James" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:56:21 -0400

Eric, 

No objection. I also think the revised names will be helpful.   

James 

-----Original Message-----
From: Haluska, John J [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:48 AM
To: Eric Burger; [email-masked]; Tim Melanchuk; Chris Boulton
Subject: RE: [MEDIACTRL] Frameworks, Frameworks, and More Frameworks

Eric

No Objection.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Burger [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:51 AM
To: [email-masked]; Tim Melanchuk; Chris Boulton
Subject: [MEDIACTRL] Frameworks, Frameworks, and More Frameworks

First, a call for consensus.  We would like to confirm the sentiment in
the room in Chicago, that both of the following documents will be the
basis for work group items.

draft-melanchuk-mediactrl-framework-00 is An Architectural Framework for
Media Server Control

draft-boulton-sip-control-framework-05 is A Control Framework for the
Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)

[ ] No Objection

As chair, I will fall on my sword here.  Since the beginning of the Bar
BOFs, we tend to have multiple documents with different names talking
about the same thing (anyone remember the Requirements and Framework
documents?).
We have had multiple documents with similar names talking about
different things.  Well, it is time to disambiguate this latter case.

---

From: RahulSrivastava 71616 <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 10:53:46 +0800

No Objection. Reduces confusion.

Rahul

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----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 10:51 pm
Subject: [MEDIACTRL] Frameworks, Frameworks, and More Frameworks

> sentiment in the
> documents?).We have had multiple documents with similar names 
> talking about different
> Notice:  This email message, together with any attachments, may 
> contain information  of  BEA Systems,  Inc.,  its subsidiaries  
> and  affiliated entities,  that may be confidential,  proprietary, 
> copyrighted  and/or legally privileged, and is intended solely 
> for the use of the individual or entity named in this message. If 
> you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message 
> in error, please immediately return this by email and then delete it.
> 
>

---

From: "McGlashan, Scott" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 11:35:58 +0200

[X] No Objection

And agree with renaming.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Burger [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 16:51
To: [email-masked]; Tim Melanchuk; Chris Boulton
Subject: [MEDIACTRL] Frameworks, Frameworks, and More Frameworks

[ ] No Objection

---

From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:25:20 -0400

I remember this coming up at the BOF.  Mea Culpa for not enforcing the
process.

Chris has noted he will make the fixes.

Thanks for keeping on top of this one.

---

From: "Adnan Saleem" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 23:30:21 -0700

[X] No Objection

However my suggestion is to have the sip-control-framework 
presented at the next IETF allowing a question/answer session, 
since it was not formally presented in Chicago.

thanks

Adnan

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Burger [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: August 1, 2007 7:51 AM
To: [email-masked]; Tim Melanchuk; Chris Boulton
Subject: [MEDIACTRL] Frameworks, Frameworks, and More Frameworks

[ ] No Objection