Subject: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

From: John Stock <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 11:03:57 -0700

Hi all,

Would it be possible to add a new parameter to the digit completion event in
the DTMF Detection package?  I'd like to add a "Detection Method" parameter,
with possible values of "DTMF" or "DP" (Dial Pulse).  This is necessary for
an Access or Residential Gateway to inform the MGC which method was used,
for the purpose of passing this data along in the ISUP SS7 messages, in the
Operator Services Info in the SETUP message.

Is it feasible to get this added into this base package?  If so how can I go
about it?

It may seem odd for this parameter to be in this package, since the name of
the package is "DTMF detection", however the DigitMap Completion event is by
far the most appropriate place to put it.

Thanks.

John Stock
Systems Engineering
Advanced Fibre Communications
[email-masked]
707-792-6249

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---

From: "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 15:17:24 -0400

Adding a parameter to the completion event will version the dd package.
Performing pulse detection may be better as a separate package.

That being said, I know of several past attempts on a dial pulse package
that were abandoned.  All were because pulse dialling was deemed as not
needed -- pulse is an extremely old and outdated technology, and limits
service functionality.  I do not believe that you can even buy new rotary
phones anymore, and even the $10 Wal-Mart specials have a switch that allow
you to produce DTMF.  All telcos that I have had dealings with provide DTMF
service free of charge these days, as well.

I do not believe that pulse is necessary, and I don't think it is worthwhile
to version the dd package.  I don't think a pulse package is particularly
useful either, but no one can stop you from defining one.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stock [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 2:04 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Hi all,

Thanks.

John Stock
Systems Engineering

---

From: "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 15:17:24 -0400

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stock [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 2:04 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Hi all,

Thanks.

John Stock
Systems Engineering

---

From: "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 15:28:46 -0400

Dial pulse does not have the #, *, or A-D digits.  Some later pulse phones
actually attempt to provide # and * by pulsing 11 or 12 times, but those are
not standard pulse implementations.  (I'm not even sure that they work...)

Uusally, for detection, once the tone digit receiver is on the line, pulses
are ignored.  I suppose it is possible to detect pulses interspersed with
DTMF digits, but why would anyone want to?  That seems to be a fool's errand
to me, since the set has announced DTMF capability to the switch by
producing DTMF.  Some features don't work right if they are doing pulse
dialing, because they cannot produce # and *, so why would one change to
pulse?

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry L Anderson [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 3:16 PM
To: John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

It is certainly possible.  It would be a new version of the package 
(version 2), but I guess the issue is whether this is preferable or 
whether there should instead be a Dial Pulse Detection package with a ce 
even, say dpd/ce.  I assume that one would not expect a mix of digits: 
'1', '3', '2' by DTMF and then '5' by DP all contributing to one digit 
map match.  

Having separate packages allows MGC to determine which or whether both 
are supported (some MGs may not be able to detect both).  The dd package 
extends tonedet and the d0, etc events are assumed to be tones.  A DP 
package might have digit events but they would not really be tones (do 
A-F exist?).  

I think I would be more comfortable with a new package rather than a new 
version of dd for this.  Of course if an MGC wanted to activate 
detection of both it would need to add both events dd/ce and dpd/ce to 
the event list, then the Notify would indicate which event occurred.

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------
Terry L Anderson              mailto:[email-masked]
Tel:732.949.5628   Fax:732.949.7016
Lucent Technologies/INS/Voice Over IP Access Networks
Rm 2G-219A, 101 Crawfords Corner Rd, Holmdel, NJ 07733-3030
http://its.lucent.com/~tla (Lucent internal) http://www.gti.net/tla

---

From: John Stock <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:15:39 -0700

I doubt anyone would change from DTMF to pulse, it's more a case of not yet
changing to DTMF from pulse (I'm sure you're aware that pulse dialing has
been around a lot longer than DTMF).

Even though dial pulse is old technology, it's certainly still prevalent.
I've seen somewhere that about 15% of U.S. lines still use dial pulse, and
about 60% non-U.S.  Also I believe there is a tariff issue - even though all
line cards deployed today are DTMF, if you look on your phone bill you'll
still see an extra charge for tone support.  You can opt to not pay for tone
support, and you will not get it, so the switch must prevent DTMF dialing or
else everyone will opt out of this "feature".  At any rate, there are many
people still using dial pulse, and all their phones will stop working if
their access network is changed to next-gen and pulse dialing is not
supported.  Now that digits are (or can be) collected in the access network
instead of the C.O., an indication is needed as to what collection method
was used.  In addition to the SS7 indication, it's also needed for MF
pulsing on tandem CAS trunks, when pulsing carrier access codes (KP vs.
KP'', etc.).

I don't believe it's necessary to try to mix methods within a single digit
detection sequence - in the case where a line supports both DTMF and DP, it
seems OK to use whatever is done for the first digit for all subsequent
digits - e.g. if a tone is dialed then all subsequent pulses are ignored, or
vice versa.

I think the #, *, & A-D thing would just be treated on pulse phones the way
A-D are treated on standard phones; they can be part of the DigitMap they
just are never used for that termination because they can't be dialed by
that phone.

Doing it as a separate package sounds OK, though I was hoping to avoid
duplicating events and signals though if possible.  Also for lines that
support both DTMF and pulse (which I believe is default service on legacy
class 5), then it makes things less efficient by requiring additional
package support and additional events descriptor - now "dd/ce" and "dpd/ce"
would have to be sent together.

Is it possible to create a later version of a basic package without having
to wait for a rev of the H.248 spec itself?

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Boyle [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:29 PM
To: Terry L Anderson; John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry L Anderson [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 3:16 PM
To: John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

--

---

From: John Stock <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:15:39 -0700

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Boyle [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:29 PM
To: Terry L Anderson; John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry L Anderson [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 3:16 PM
To: John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

--

---

From: Al Varney <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 18:24:17 -0500

At 02:15 PM 8/6/02 -0700, John Stock wrote:
>about 60% non-U.S.  ....  At any rate, there are many
>supported.

    While many US TELCo's allow DTMF dialing without added charge (Kevin's 
assertion), this is not true nationwide (particularly in rural areas).  Nor 
have any TELCos required homeowners to discard DP phones or switch 
dual-mode phones to DTMF.  In fact, that's probably an impossible 
requirement.  As a example, I have a DP-only phone in my basement -- mostly 
to answer incoming calls.  I'd like to be able to dial 911 if I'm trapped 
by a tornado in my basement.  Many of the old Bell System DP phones from 
the 1950s are still connected to DTMF-capable lines.

    And this isn't a US-centric protocol anyway, is it?

    I think one assumption in this discussion is that Kevin is probably 
thinking of a "residential gateway" owned by a 
homeowner/business-owner.  Such an owner would likely upgrade any DP phones 
to DTMF when installing the gateway.  I'd agree with Kevin that such 
gateways probably don't need to support DP.

   John is instead thinking of a "line access gateway", providing service 
to multiple homes/businesses -- perhaps as a flash cut-over from an 
existing switch.  In such cases, one MUST continue to provide DP service 
because no one can be sure there isn't a DP phone on one of the lines.  So 
such gatways MUST support DP and DTMF simultaneously on a given line.

>   Now that digits are (or can be) collected in the access network

    While the MF/SS7 indications are useful, they are relatively new and 
not universally provided by today's network.  What IS required by any Class 
5 softswitch with line access gateways is an indication of DP/DTMF for 
billing and reporting purposes -- in the USA and elsewhere.

Al Varney

---

From: Al Varney <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 18:24:17 -0500

Al Varney

---

From: "David Barr" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 14:24:01 +0100

A different, but related, question ...

H.248 section 7.2.5 (AuditValue) states:
"DigitMapDescriptor returns the name or value of the current DigitMap for
the Termination."

Now, if both a "dd/ce" and "dpd/ce" event is active on a Termination (with
appropriate DigitMap descriptors), then which DigitMap is the "current" one?
I.e. which one is returned in response to an AuditValue command?

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry L Anderson [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 8:16 PM
To: John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

--

---

From: "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:49:20 -0400

Comments inline. [KJBII]

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stock [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 5:16 PM
To: Boyle, Kevin [NCRTP:3R90:EXCH]; Terry L Anderson; John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

[KBJII] I am very familiar with pulse versus tone dialing.  I have years of
experience in line feature design and this is one thing that has to be taken
into account, since some features are not terribly suited to pulse.

[KJBII] Your phone company may still charge you for DTMF, but I know
Bellsouth doesn't charge me -- and hasn't for years.  Most telcos provide
DTMF service for free, because there is no extra cost to the telco to
provide DTMF service.  I strongly challenge the notion that 15% of the US is
using rotary phones.  There may be people with pulse lines, but odds are
that the sets connected to those lines have a switch that allow the set to
produce DTMF tones, meaning that the phones will work just fine when the
change is made.  While there is utility in "backwards compatibility", in
this particular case, we are deploying new technology and the end users can
come forward into the 1970s.  By weaning pulse lines from the network, there
is no longer a need to indicate the collection method, as it is always DTMF!

[KJBII] Many sets are perfectly capable of generating A-D, they just don't
provide a way for the end user to do it.  Also, I believe it's bad design to
scan for things you don't actually want.  Most standard digitmaps I've seen
don't even include A-D, because they shouldn't appear in standard dialling
sequences.  Only digitmaps that are specifically looking for those digits
should include them.  YMMV, of course.

[KJBII] I strongly oppose adding pulse to the dd package.  If a new package
is that big a deal, detect the pulse digits and report them as if they were
DTMF.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Boyle [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:29 PM
To: Terry L Anderson; John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry L Anderson [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 3:16 PM
To: John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

--

---

From: "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:49:20 -0400

Comments inline. [KJBII]

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stock [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 5:16 PM
To: Boyle, Kevin [NCRTP:3R90:EXCH]; Terry L Anderson; John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Boyle [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:29 PM
To: Terry L Anderson; John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry L Anderson [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 3:16 PM
To: John Stock
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

--

---

From: Al Varney <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:09:45 -0500

(resending, first one disappeared....)

    While many US TELCo's allow DTMF dialing without added charge (Kevin's 
assertion), this is not true nationwide (particularly in rural areas).  A 
more relevant point:  No TELCo has required homeowners to disconnect 
existing DP phones or switch dual-mode phones to DTMF.  In fact, that's 
probably an impossible requirement.  As a example, I have a DP-only phone 
in my basement -- mostly to answer incoming calls.  I'd like to be able to 
dial 911 if I'm trapped by a tornado in my basement.  Many of the old Bell 
System DP phones from the 1950s are still connected to DTMF-capable lines.

    I think one assumption in this discussion is that Kevin may be thinking 
of a "residential gateway" owned by a homeowner/business-owner.  Such an 
owner would likely upgrade any DP phones to DTMF when installing the 
gateway.  I'd agree with Kevin that such gateways probably don't need to 
support DP.

   John is expicitly discussing a "line access gateway", providing service 

    In the access gateway case, homeowners should be unaware their service 
has been moved to the gateway, and cannot be required to alter their 
dialing/extension usage.  Even a change as subtle as dial tone volume can 
generate many calls to Customer Service -- "something's wrong with my 
telephone line!".  (I've seen letters written when coarse cross-bar dial 
tone was replaced with ESS precision dial tone.)

>pulsing on tandem CAS trunks, when pulsing carrier access codes (KP vs.

    While the MF/SS7 indications are useful to IXCs, they are relatively 
new and not universally provided by today's network.  What IS required by 
any Class 5 softswitch with line access gateways is an indication of 
DP/DTMF for billing and reporting purposes -- in the USA and elsewhere.

Al Varney

---

From: Al Varney <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:09:45 -0500

Al Varney

---

From: "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 11:16:22 -0400

Comments inline. [KJBII]

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Al Varney [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 7:24 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

[KJBII] Hmmm... I guess it's too much trouble to go to Wal-Mart and buy a
$10 phone that does DTMF.  Certainly telcos would have to notify their
customer base that pulse will no longer work, just as they do if they are
changing the area code.  But I really don't know of many people that would
complain.  If it is that much concern that we maintain pulse technology
until the end of time, then detect the pulse digits while detecting DTMF,
and report them in the DTMF package.  Or invent a new package.  But I still
assert that pulse has exceeded its useful lifetime, and we shouldn't
necessarily propogate it just to keep it around.

[KJBII] As for billing, the rural telcos that charge for DTMF aren't really
known as being on the cutting edge.  Many of those same telcos still have
multiparty lines!  You aren't in favor of propogating party lines too, are
you?  Remember, this is new technology.  Telcos that want to continue to
support older technology can do so, by not upgrading.

[KJBII] DTMF is an international standard.  I am probably the last person
that can be accused of being US centric in my protocol additions, since all
the packages I have written have been with an eye to international use.

[KJBII] Your assumption cannot be further from reality.  I am not thinking
of a residential gateway.  In fact, I try not to think in terms of specific
applications of gateways.  That leads to inconsistencies in the protocol
across applications.

[KJBII] I work every day on a large-scale MG line access product on which
Nortel is deploying 3.6 million H.248 based lines (press release URL--
http://www.nortelnetworks.com/corporate/news/newsreleases/2001d/11_05_01_spr
int_voip.html).  I assure you, these are not "bolt-to-your-house" MGs.  I
can also assure you that DP is not a concern -- the number of customers that
are DP is pretty small and, of those, the number that have ONLY rotary
phones is minimal.  If it is such a concern to support DP, I have provided a
couple ideas above.

Al Varney

---

From: Al Varney <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:56:39 -0500

>Comments inline. [KJBII]

   Trimmed, comments inline[ALV].

>  ... Many of the old Bell System DP phones from
>complain.

    I can imagine lots of complaints, from all sorts of neighborhoods.  But 
I'm not a TELCo, so they'll have to speak up (if they care).  It just seems 
likely that TELCos will find it easier to force a vendor to support DP 
phones than to notify customers, handle the extra complaints and risk the 
"911 doesn't work from my old phone" lawsuit.

>   If it is that much concern that we maintain pulse technology
>and report them in the DTMF package.

    That's reasonable, except for the requirement (in some Telcordia 
documents, for example) to distinguish at the Class 5 switch between the 
types of dialing.  But supporting DP, and ignoring these requirements, 
seems much more reasonable than an access gateway that doesn't support DP 
at all.

    As far as I know, dial pulse dialing patterns are sub-sets of those for 
DTMF.  For example, "*67" can be dialed as "1167" on either DP or DTMF 
phones.  So it is reasonable to have a single digit map for both forms of 
dialing.

>you?

    I'm not -- I had to live with 8-party service (after upgrading from 
manual service) for too many years.  Unfortunately, many Public Utility 
Commissions seem to favor the continuance of multiparty service (or at 
least multiparty rates).

>the packages I have written have been with an eye to international use.

    DP is also an international standard (with some country differences in 
the pulses sent for specific digits).  The real question:  Is it reasonable 
to assume service providers are willing to force their customers to remove 
all DP phones from their lines?  Alternatively:  Will service providers 
purchase gateways for residential service that don't support DP phones in 
some fashion?

    Since I'm neither a gateway vendor nor user, I'll let you folks hash 
out the mechanism (if any) to be used.  My only interest was in raising the 
(non-trivial) issue of forcing customers to remove DP from their lines.  I 
AM such a customer.

Al Varney

---

From: Al Varney <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:56:39 -0500

Al Varney

---

From: John Stock <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:27:16 -0700

Rajeev,

You are correct in that digit collection and routing can certainly take
place without knowledge of DTMF vs. DP.  For that reason I think we've
gotten off on a little tangent - the issue isn't really do we support dial
pulse, it's if we are to support it, does an indication need to be sent to
the MGC, and if so how.

It's not as simple as routing though - there are some features besides just
routing that use digit handling, and it is useful sometimes to know whether
or not DTMF capability exists in the originating end.  For instance when
dialing into a menu system, the menu system can get an indication as to
whether or not DTMF was used by the originator - if so then it may prompt
for additional entries, otherwise may connect the person directly to an
operator.

Unfortunately I'm not well versed on the details of such handling - I more
work on the access side of the house.  As such I'm attempting to gather
details about the usefulness and/or necessity of such indication from the
access gateway.  Up to this point I've assumed that such an indication is
needed, for some of the reasons stated, which is perhaps a bad thing and has
led to some rather lively interactions.  However until I know more details
I'm not convinced it's *not* needed; so before continuing with discussion on
how it might be done I want to find out for sure if it really is needed.

Thanks,
John

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajeev K R [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 12:33 AM
To: Kevin Boyle
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Hi,
I have another question regarding the digit detection.
In which case it is necessary for the MGC to know what was the dialling
method ?
A digit reported in DTMF is going to be processed by the MGC in the same way
as the digit reported by DP. So for MGC the only requirement is that the MG
should
report the digits even if the phone is DP.

An MG may support both the DTMP and DP detection. When the MGC asks it to
detect a
digitmap completion event on a terminal, let the MG do it irrespective of
the type of phone.
I think the issue is only related to name of the package, it should have
been just digit detection package
instead of DTMF detection Package. If we name the package as digit detection
package and add a sentence that this can be used for both DTMF and DP the
issue is solved.

Kevin,
Was there any particular reason for naming the package as DTMF detection
when it could have been generic enough as digit detection ?

Regards,
Rajeev

---

From: John Stock <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:27:16 -0700

Rajeev,

Thanks,
John

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajeev K R [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 12:33 AM
To: Kevin Boyle
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Hi,

Kevin,

Regards,
Rajeev

---

From: "Wu, Mitchell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:05:08 -0500

DP and DTMF dialing have implication on both billing and service.

1. Billing 

Usually, Carrier will default the line as DTMF if it is available on the subscription.  If one wants to have DP service instead of DTMF, he will save a few bucks a month.  However, many people do not know the difference, so they automatically take what the carrier offers. It is free only if you are not aware of it.  Check your  local   phone bill, most likely there is line item " touch Tone service" . Verizon charges that for $1.5/month.

On the other hand, if a user subscribe  Dial Pulse service only, and that line is DTMF capable, Carriers do not want to deny  the service if the guy   is using DTMF mode , since he is still paying his bill. Regulation disallow the denial of service in some region. But Carrier should have  a way to detect that  this guy is using DTMF, and can adjust his bill accordingly. If that information is not passed to MGC, there will be no way for carrier to know if the customer is using DTMF service but paying only Dial Pulse service.

2. Service

The rotary phone is not capable of supply "#", and it might have difficulty in  calling card service. If a  user is prompted with " Please dial your account code followed by # " after dialing access code, imagine what will happen next. The remote switch ( Tandem switch)  has  logic to handle DP and DTMF differently  so it might provide an   announcement  such as " please dial your account code followed by * " instead. In some case, the user is redirected to operator and complete the call as John Stock  mentioned.

The following is an example to show how the DP and DTMF information is passed to tandem switch from local switch.

Assume that the local switch interconnects the Tandem switch via FGD CAS trunk and AC ( Access Carrier, the owner of the tandem switch) is  requesting only dial pulse vs. DTMF information.  Then the local switch has to outpulse digit string for DP dialing 

	 KP+ II +ANI + ST
       KP+ Called Party Number + ST

and for DTMF dialing 
	 KP"+ II +ANI + ST
       KP + Called Party Number + ST
Where KP and KP" are special digits ( key pulse),  II is  info digits, ANI could be calling party number or charge number.

In this case , the MGC needs to know how the digits is collected in order to build the string accordingly.  IOC and even some RBOC are still requesting this feature  in the NGN switch, and this  should be an  indication for the need to  add DP/DTMF information into the DTMF package (  or generic name Digits Detection Package).

Mitchell 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stock [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:27 PM
To: 'Rajeev K R'; Kevin Boyle
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Rajeev,

Thanks,
John

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajeev K R [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 12:33 AM
To: Kevin Boyle
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Hi,

Kevin,

Regards,
Rajeev

---

From: "Wu, Mitchell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:05:08 -0500

1. Billing 

2. Service

	 KP+ II +ANI + ST

and for DTMF dialing 
	 KP"+ II +ANI + ST

Mitchell 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stock [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:27 PM
To: 'Rajeev K R'; Kevin Boyle
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Rajeev,

Thanks,
John

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajeev K R [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 12:33 AM
To: Kevin Boyle
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Hi,

Kevin,

Regards,
Rajeev

---

From: "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:32:51 -0400

Again, if you want to provide a new package, then fine.  But I strongly
oppose versioning the dd package for pulse.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Wu, Mitchell [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 8:05 PM
To: John Stock; Rajeev K R; Boyle, Kevin [NCRTP:3R90:EXCH]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

1. Billing 

Usually, Carrier will default the line as DTMF if it is available on the
subscription.  If one wants to have DP service instead of DTMF, he will save
a few bucks a month.  However, many people do not know the difference, so
they automatically take what the carrier offers. It is free only if you are
not aware of it.  Check your  local   phone bill, most likely there is line
item " touch Tone service" . Verizon charges that for $1.5/month.

On the other hand, if a user subscribe  Dial Pulse service only, and that
line is DTMF capable, Carriers do not want to deny  the service if the guy
is using DTMF mode , since he is still paying his bill. Regulation disallow
the denial of service in some region. But Carrier should have  a way to
detect that  this guy is using DTMF, and can adjust his bill accordingly. If
that information is not passed to MGC, there will be no way for carrier to
know if the customer is using DTMF service but paying only Dial Pulse
service.

2. Service

The rotary phone is not capable of supply "#", and it might have difficulty
in  calling card service. If a  user is prompted with " Please dial your
account code followed by # " after dialing access code, imagine what will
happen next. The remote switch ( Tandem switch)  has  logic to handle DP and
DTMF differently  so it might provide an   announcement  such as " please
dial your account code followed by * " instead. In some case, the user is
redirected to operator and complete the call as John Stock  mentioned.

The following is an example to show how the DP and DTMF information is
passed to tandem switch from local switch.

Assume that the local switch interconnects the Tandem switch via FGD CAS
trunk and AC ( Access Carrier, the owner of the tandem switch) is
requesting only dial pulse vs. DTMF information.  Then the local switch has
to outpulse digit string for DP dialing 

	 KP+ II +ANI + ST

and for DTMF dialing 
	 KP"+ II +ANI + ST
       KP + Called Party Number + ST
Where KP and KP" are special digits ( key pulse),  II is  info digits, ANI
could be calling party number or charge number.

In this case , the MGC needs to know how the digits is collected in order to
build the string accordingly.  IOC and even some RBOC are still requesting
this feature  in the NGN switch, and this  should be an  indication for the
need to  add DP/DTMF information into the DTMF package (  or generic name
Digits Detection Package).

Mitchell 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stock [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:27 PM
To: 'Rajeev K R'; Kevin Boyle
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Rajeev,

Thanks,
John

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajeev K R [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 12:33 AM
To: Kevin Boyle
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Hi,

Kevin,

Regards,
Rajeev

---

From: "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:32:51 -0400

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Wu, Mitchell [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 8:05 PM
To: John Stock; Rajeev K R; Boyle, Kevin [NCRTP:3R90:EXCH]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

1. Billing 

2. Service

	 KP+ II +ANI + ST

and for DTMF dialing 
	 KP"+ II +ANI + ST

Mitchell 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stock [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:27 PM
To: 'Rajeev K R'; Kevin Boyle
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Rajeev,

Thanks,
John

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajeev K R [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 12:33 AM
To: Kevin Boyle
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Hi,

Kevin,

Regards,
Rajeev

---

From: John Stock <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:21:39 -0700

Will do (new package).  Draft forthcoming.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Boyle [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:33 AM
To: Wu, Mitchell; John Stock; Rajeev K R
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Kevin 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Wu, Mitchell [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 8:05 PM 
To: John Stock; Rajeev K R; Boyle, Kevin [NCRTP:3R90:EXCH] 
Cc: [email-masked] 
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event 

1. Billing 

2. Service 

         KP+ II +ANI + ST 

and for DTMF dialing 
         KP"+ II +ANI + ST 

Mitchell 

-----Original Message----- 
From: John Stock [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:27 PM 
To: 'Rajeev K R'; Kevin Boyle 
Cc: [email-masked] 
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event 

Rajeev, 

Thanks, 
John 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Rajeev K R [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 12:33 AM 
To: Kevin Boyle 
Cc: [email-masked] 
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event 

Hi, 

Kevin, 

Regards, 
Rajeev 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]> 
To: "Al Varney" <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:16 PM 
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event 

> From: Al Varney [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ] 

http://www.nortelnetworks.com/corporate/news/newsreleases/2001d/11_05_01_spr
<http://www.nortelnetworks.com/corporate/news/newsreleases/2001d/11_05_01_sp
r>  
> phones is minimal.  If it is such a concern to support DP, I have provided

a 

> billing and reporting purposes -- in the USA and elsewhere. 
<https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/megaco>  
<https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/megaco>  

_______________________________________________ 
Megaco mailing list 
[email-masked] 
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/megaco
<https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/megaco>  

_______________________________________________ 
Megaco mailing list 
[email-masked] 
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/megaco
<https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/megaco>

---

From: John Stock <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:21:39 -0700

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Boyle [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:33 AM
To: Wu, Mitchell; John Stock; Rajeev K R
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event

Kevin 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Wu, Mitchell [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 8:05 PM 
To: John Stock; Rajeev K R; Boyle, Kevin [NCRTP:3R90:EXCH] 
Cc: [email-masked] 
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event 

1. Billing 

2. Service 

         KP+ II +ANI + ST 

and for DTMF dialing 
         KP"+ II +ANI + ST 

Mitchell 

-----Original Message----- 
From: John Stock [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 1:27 PM 
To: 'Rajeev K R'; Kevin Boyle 
Cc: [email-masked] 
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event 

Rajeev, 

Thanks, 
John 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Rajeev K R [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 12:33 AM 
To: Kevin Boyle 
Cc: [email-masked] 
Subject: Re: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event 

Hi, 

Kevin, 

Regards, 
Rajeev 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]> 
To: "Al Varney" <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:16 PM 
Subject: RE: [Megaco] New parameter for digit completion event 

a