Subject: RE: [Mip4] Query regarding MN-AAA authenticator calculation.

From: "Arun SG" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:28:58 +0530

Hello, 
Please refer to the old thread pasted below. Can someone please provide
a few followup clarifications ?

1. What is the current status of 3012bis? 
2. This para in 3012 and 3012bis states: 

If the MN-AAA Authentication extension (see Section 6) is present in the
message, or if an NAI extension is included indicating that the mobile
node belongs to a different administrative domain, the foreign agent may
take actions outside the scope of this protocol specification to carry
out the authentication of the mobile node.

Does this then mean that this specification is restricted to the case
when the MN, FA and AAA all belong to the same administrative domain? 

3. While CHAP_SPI declares that MD5 is to be used, I could not find a
description of how the "key" that is to be used in MD5 is obtained. Is
there an implicitly understanding that this is preshared, or perhaps
obtained through some other key exchange mechanims ? 

MD5      (High-order byte from Challenge || Key || <<<<------is this
thru' IKE or some other means?
        MD5(Preceding Mobile IP data ||
        Type, Subtype (if present), Length, SPI) ||
        Least-order 237 bytes from Challenge))

Thanks in advance, 
Arun

RE: [Mip4] Query regarding MN-AAA authenticator calculation.

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To: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 <Madjid.Nakhjiri at motorola.com> 
Subject: RE: [Mip4] Query regarding MN-AAA authenticator calculation. 
From: Kent Leung <kleung at cisco.com> 
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 17:21:21 -0800 
Cc: "'Pete McCann'" <mccap at lucent.com>, Archana <archana_p at
huawei.com>, mip4 at ietf.org 
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Hi Madjid.  The rfc3012bis draft covers the CCoA mode.

Based on local policy, a Mobile Node with co-located care-of-address
   MAY include the Mobile-AAA Authentication extension in Registration
   Request.  In this case, if the Mobile Node uses SPI value of CHAP_SPI
   or HMAC_CHAP_SPI (section 8) in the MN-AAA Authentication extension,
   Mobile Node MUST include the Mobile-Foreign Challenge extension prior
   to the Mobile-AAA Authentication extension.  The mechanism used by
   the Mobile Node to obtain the Challenge value is outside the scope of
   this document.

Kent

At 03:52 PM 3/4/2005 -0600, Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 wrote: 
Hi,

I have been meaning to respond to this as well. I agree there is no
RADIUS MD5. However, there is a problem with sending all the following

Preceding Mobile IP data ||
        Type, Subtype (if present), Length, SPI) ||
       Least-order 237 bytes from Challenge

Over RADIUS messages, since RADIUS packets can be at most 4K long and
attributes at most 253 bytes (if I understood this correctly), which
means you do have to calculate a hash of the data above before packing
it over RADIUS messaging, if you want the AAA server to do the same
calculations. If anybody has a number on the number of bytes the data
above takes, I would appreciate it??
We tried to explain this in our draft on RADIUS support for MIP-AAA
signaling.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nakhjiri-radius-mip4-00.txt

We ran into another problem with this and that was: the challenge is
used only in conjunctions with FAs and when the MN uses a CcoA and
registers through HA directly, there won't be any challenge to calculate

MD5      (High-order byte from Challenge || Key ||
        MD5(Preceding Mobile IP data ||
        Type, Subtype (if present), Length, SPI) ||
        Least-order 237 bytes from Challenge))

Our proposal based on Charlie's suggestion (no mean to push the blame,
Charlie :) ) was to include zero octets whenever challenge data was
needed in that case.

Any thoughts?

Madjid
-----Original Message-----
From: mip4-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:mip4-bounces at ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Pete McCann
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:48 AM
To: Archana
Cc: mip4 at ietf.org
Subject: [Mip4] Query regarding MN-AAA authenticator calculation.

Hi, Archana,

Archana writes:
> Hi
> According to RFC 3012, the MN-AAA authenticator is computed by
applying MD5
> on the following data
>
> High-order byte from Challenge || Key ||
> MD5(Preceding Mobile IP data ||
> Type, Subtype (if present), Length, SPI) ||
> Least-order 237 bytes from Challenge
>
> I have the following queries regarding the above computation. Any help
in
> the clarifying them will be highly appreciated.
>
> 1. What is meant by High-order and Least order ?

"High-order" means "most significant".  You can also interpret it as
"leftmost" when looking at the encoding of the Challenge in a Mobile
IP Extension.

> 2. How does the Radius MD5 algorithm differ in calculating the
Authenticator
> from a MD5 algorithm

There is no special "Radius MD5" as far as I know.

MD5 is specified in RFC3121.  It is a well-known hash function that
processes the input and produces a 16 octet hash.

The calculation shown above is compatible with existing RADIUS servers
that are used for authenticating PPP/CHAP, i.e., the code used for
PPP/CHAP can be re-used to compute the above authenticator, assuming
that the FA can precompute the inner MD5 and send it in an
Access-Request.

-Pete

 > Thanks in advance
 > Archana

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From: "McCann Peter-A001034" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:42:20 -0500

Hi, Arun,

Arun SG wrote:
> Hello,
> Please refer to the old thread pasted below. Can someone please
> provide a few followup clarifications ? 
> 

3012bis is currently in AUTH48, one of the very last stages before
publication.  I think we are still waiting on responses from a couple
of the authors.

> If the MN-AAA Authentication extension (see Section 6) is present in
> the message, or if an NAI extension is included indicating that the
> mobile node belongs to a different administrative domain, the foreign
> agent may take actions outside the scope of this protocol
> specification to carry out the authentication of the mobile node.    
> 

Certainly not.  It just says that the action taken by the FA to
validate the MN-AAA extension is outside the scope of this document.

> description of how the "key" that is to be used in MD5 is obtained.
> Is there an implicitly understanding that this is preshared, or
> perhaps obtained through some other key exchange mechanims ?   

The "key" is a long-term secret shared between the MN and the
home AAA server.  It is configured using out-of-band mechanisms that
are outside the scope of 3012.
>         Least-order 237 bytes from Challenge))

Hope this helps.

-Pete

> In-reply-to:
> <[email-masked] .com>
>    Request.  In this case, if the Mobile Node uses SPI value of
>    CHAP_SPI or HMAC_CHAP_SPI (section 8) in the MN-AAA Authentication
>    extension, Mobile Node MUST include the Mobile-Foreign Challenge
>    extension prior to the Mobile-AAA Authentication extension.  The
>    mechanism used by the Mobile Node to obtain the Challenge value is
>    outside the scope of this document.
> 
> Kent
> 
> 
>> applying MD5 on the following data 
>> 
>> I have the following queries regarding the above computation. Any
>> help in the clarifying them will be highly appreciated.
>> 
>> Authenticator from a MD5 algorithm
> 
>