Subject: [MMUSIC] IMG Reqs & FW v01 Internet-drafts: review please!

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:34:38 +0200

Hello All

The specifications on IMG requirements and framework are now in pretty good shape.

These provide a solid basis on which to design a better-than-SAP announcement protocol, enable a diverse mix of description formats (SDP, MPEG7, etc), and personalise reception through filtering, subscription and request.

There are a few open issues with what are the next steps so everyone's comments on these are very useful! The URLs to each document are:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mmusic-img-req-01.txt
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mmusic-img-framework-01.txt

As discussed in Minneapolis (IETF Meeting 58) and before, we want to do a final public review before freezing these very soon so we would be delighted to get detailed review now (pre-working group last call). Private emails are welcome, though we'd like to encourage public review via the MMUSIC mailing list.

We are looking forward to your ideas and comments. Thank you in advance!

Best regards,
Rod Walsh and all the IMG authors.

IMG = Internet Media Guides = framework for media/Internet_content discovery and more...

_______________________________________________
mmusic mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic

---

From: Evain Jean-Pierre <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:43:26 +0100

I just joined the reflector to help having the following message going
through more rapidly.

Jean-Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: Evain Jean-Pierre 
Sent: jeudi, 18. décembre 2003 14:11
To: [email-masked]'; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; Evain Jean-Pierre
Subject: RE: IMG Reqs & FW v01 Internet-drafts: review please!

Dear Rod,

Thank-you for sharing the information.

I received your mail and read the documents with interest.

As you know, I am particularly involved in TV-Anytime but also in DVB and
was considering all this from a broadcaster perspective.

I do not have time to go into the details right now but it seems that
TV-Anytime and / or its members would like to comment.  I am therefore going
to forward this to the TV-Anytime community.

There are two types of contributions that you can certainly expect:

- technical contributions
- generic contributions like e.g. on section 6.1 of the IMG framework where
there is room for improvement of your vision of what TV-Anytime has done, is
doing now, and its relationship to MPEG-7 (e.g. the TV-Anytime spec isn't
based on MPEG-7 but shares a few schemas with MPEG-7 on user description
metadata).

These contributions can be envisaged in two ways:

- contributions from individuals experts
- contribution from TV-Anytime as a Forum

What I need to know is the deadline.  Until when do we have to make these
comments?  For your information, TV-Anytime is meeting during the second
week of January in Geneva.  I am also trying to organise a joint meeting
with DVB IPI during this period.

Can you wait until then?

Woudl someone from MMUSIC be able to join?

Please let me know...

All the best for 2004!

Best regards,

Jean-Pierre Evain

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: jeudi, 18. décembre 2003 08:35
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: IMG Reqs & FW v01 Internet-drafts: review please!

Hello All

The specifications on IMG requirements and framework are now in pretty good
shape.

These provide a solid basis on which to design a better-than-SAP
announcement protocol, enable a diverse mix of description formats (SDP,
MPEG7, etc), and personalise reception through filtering, subscription and
request.

There are a few open issues with what are the next steps so everyone's
comments on these are very useful! The URLs to each document are:

As discussed in Minneapolis (IETF Meeting 58) and before, we want to do a
final public review before freezing these very soon so we would be delighted
to get detailed review now (pre-working group last call). Private emails are
welcome, though we'd like to encourage public review via the MMUSIC mailing
list.

Best regards,

IMG = Internet Media Guides = framework for media/Internet_content discovery
and more...

**********************************************************************
 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

**********************************************************************

---

From: Evain Jean-Pierre <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:10:39 +0100

Dear Rod,

Can you wait until then?

Please let me know...

All the best for 2004!

Best regards,

Jean-Pierre Evain

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: jeudi, 18. décembre 2003 08:35
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: IMG Reqs & FW v01 Internet-drafts: review please!

Hello All

Best regards,

**********************************************************************
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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:52:40 +0200

Hi Jean-Pierre

All contributions and reviews are welcome, and everything constructive (with an idea of how to make progress) is great regarless whetehr the critisism is positive or negative.

The best way to contribute is in small bursts as several small ideas can be dealt with progressively and a single large batch of feedabck is bound to introduce some latency and risk missing some of the quieter points. Individual and organizational are fine, but it is important that the people emailing the comments are prepared to partcipate in the discussion (i.e. understand the issues or in close proximity to the experts who do) - this is also a good reason for reviews in short bursts as you can spread the "competence burden".

The dead line is "as soon as possible". I personally hope we will last call (solicit final reviews) very soon and close this before the end of January. If there are convincing arguments that additional valuable input will not arrive until February we can talk about a second last call if the points were not addressed in the first. (i.e. the dead-line is mid/end-January, but serious requests for time to add details to comments will probably be treat with enthusiasm and accomodation). (Note, a last call is initiated where the authors and chairs feel the documents are ready, however a decision to ask the IESG to consider for RFC publication often follows more than one last call).

The MMUSIC chairs orchestrate this process so: Colin & Joerg, did that sound about right?

Joerg has talked with IPI, as well as Toni Paila (one of my collegaues) (at this point I have no idea whether I would be available for MMUSIC input into an TVA+IPI meeting - depends on timing and location). Let's follow up on this.

Cheers and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
Rod.

> From: ext Evain Jean-Pierre [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 3:11 PM
> To: Walsh Rod (NRC/Tampere); [email-masked]

Best regards,

---

From: Evain Jean-Pierre <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:12:13 +0100

Rod,

Time is probably pressing but I think there is a need to consider all these
issues carefully all the more so as many parties are interested in not
destabilising the effort spent in DVB and in TV-Anytime.

DVB has adopted TV-Anytime that is now an ETSI standard. TV-Anytime is a
cornerstone of many DVB developments including most recently in DVB IPTV.
Reasonable effort was spent through cross-membership harmonising between TVA
and DVB IPI and more discussion is foreseen on metadata.  This is without
saying that we keep on eye on DVB UMTS that Nokia is necessarily aware of.

We are interested in ensuring that MMUSIC does a good job and we shall
certainly collaborate in a positive spirit.

As I mentioned, we shall come back to you with comments in diverse form,
from individuals and most likely from the TVA Forum itself.  Whether the
bursts will be small or large remains to be decided by those who will
contribute.

It seems that mid-January is okay and we shall be ready on time.

I would encourage you to turn up at the TV-Anytime January (13-16) meeting
in Geneva, which is a lucky location when considering who might potentially
be involved and the deadlines.
DVB IPI is meeting in Geneva on 13-14 January. It would therefore seem that
a joint meeting could take place on the 13 in the afternoon on on the 14th.
I am currently trying to get an answer from DVB IPI, whose Chairman is
directly involved in TV-Anytime.

Short joint meetings are certainly more productive than long e-mails.

Best regards,

Jean-Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: vendredi, 19. décembre 2003 13:53
To: Evain Jean-Pierre
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked];
[email-masked]

Hi Jean-Pierre

All contributions and reviews are welcome, and everything constructive (with
an idea of how to make progress) is great regarless whetehr the critisism is
positive or negative.

The best way to contribute is in small bursts as several small ideas can be
dealt with progressively and a single large batch of feedabck is bound to
introduce some latency and risk missing some of the quieter points.
Individual and organizational are fine, but it is important that the people
emailing the comments are prepared to partcipate in the discussion (i.e.
understand the issues or in close proximity to the experts who do) - this is
also a good reason for reviews in short bursts as you can spread the
"competence burden".

The dead line is "as soon as possible". I personally hope we will last call
(solicit final reviews) very soon and close this before the end of January.
If there are convincing arguments that additional valuable input will not
arrive until February we can talk about a second last call if the points
were not addressed in the first. (i.e. the dead-line is mid/end-January, but
serious requests for time to add details to comments will probably be treat
with enthusiasm and accomodation). (Note, a last call is initiated where the
authors and chairs feel the documents are ready, however a decision to ask
the IESG to consider for RFC publication often follows more than one last
call).

The MMUSIC chairs orchestrate this process so: Colin & Joerg, did that sound
about right?

Joerg has talked with IPI, as well as Toni Paila (one of my collegaues) (at
this point I have no idea whether I would be available for MMUSIC input into
an TVA+IPI meeting - depends on timing and location). Let's follow up on
this.

> TV-Anytime and / or its members would like to comment.  I am therefore 
> going to forward this to the TV-Anytime community.
> 
> announcement protocol, enable a diverse mix of description formats 
> (SDP, MPEG7, etc), and personalise reception through filtering,
> subscription and
> request.
> 

Best regards,

**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com
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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:34:29 +0200

Hi Jean-Pierre et al.

> It seems that mid-January is okay and we shall be ready on time.

Excellent, thank you for your effort on this.

> in Geneva, which is a lucky location when considering who 

I'll try to negotiate it with my boss :)

> destabilising the effort spent in DVB and in TV-Anytime.

Certainly. I've been following these issues from a distance and it seems that TVA metadata fit into IMGs is smooth and trouble free - technically and politically. I'd be very happy to hear the opinions of others too.

As I see it the fit is (please correct/educate me where I miss something):
* TVA metadata could be transported over DVB-GBS/SI and over DVB-IP/SD&S. If SD&S were possible over IMG delivery protocols then already TVA over IMG fits the work already done (note, the SD&S announcement protocol for DVB2/IPI_Phase2 is totally open at this time).

* TVA metadata does not conflict with any ideas in IMG (nor does it's data model). In fact, since TVA explicitly says that it will not standardise an announcement protocol and MMUSIC/IMGs explicitly states that it will not standardise application-specific metadata and data models then the situation seems harmonious to me.

* The items for review (requirements and framework) do not define delivery protocols, but do explain the need.

* The cross-organisation efforts of TVA are delivery (protocol) related an thus would be very good input to the delivery protocol work undertaken in MMUSIC following any decision to charter this. (i.e. delivery portocol commons are not urgent and only possible on the individual Internet-draft submissions which are not subject to this last call).

> certainly collaborate in a positive spirit.

We are very grateful to hear expert opinion from a variety of fields. Likewise, if you have any questions on how IMG can be leveraged for TVA objectives, we'll do our best to help you out.

Best Christmas regards,
Rod Walsh.

---

From: Evain Jean-Pierre <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:53:42 +0100

Rod,

Having read the MMUSIC documentation, I do not see any particular difficulty
but I prefer relying on true experts from TVA to check that this the case
because we have a part of our specification dealing with metadata service
discovery over IP and here we have been looking at what DVB IPI was doing
too.

All the best for 2004!

Jean-Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: vendredi, 19. décembre 2003 15:34
To: Evain Jean-Pierre
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked];
[email-masked]

Hi Jean-Pierre et al.

> destabilising the effort spent in DVB and in TV-Anytime.

Certainly. I've been following these issues from a distance and it seems
that TVA metadata fit into IMGs is smooth and trouble free - technically and
politically. I'd be very happy to hear the opinions of others too.

As I see it the fit is (please correct/educate me where I miss something):
* TVA metadata could be transported over DVB-GBS/SI and over DVB-IP/SD&S. If
SD&S were possible over IMG delivery protocols then already TVA over IMG
fits the work already done (note, the SD&S announcement protocol for
DVB2/IPI_Phase2 is totally open at this time).

* TVA metadata does not conflict with any ideas in IMG (nor does it's data
model). In fact, since TVA explicitly says that it will not standardise an
announcement protocol and MMUSIC/IMGs explicitly states that it will not
standardise application-specific metadata and data models then the situation
seems harmonious to me.

* The items for review (requirements and framework) do not define delivery
protocols, but do explain the need.

* The cross-organisation efforts of TVA are delivery (protocol) related an
thus would be very good input to the delivery protocol work undertaken in
MMUSIC following any decision to charter this. (i.e. delivery portocol
commons are not urgent and only possible on the individual Internet-draft
submissions which are not subject to this last call).

> certainly collaborate in a positive spirit.

We are very grateful to hear expert opinion from a variety of fields.
Likewise, if you have any questions on how IMG can be leveraged for TVA
objectives, we'll do our best to help you out.

Best Christmas regards,
Rod Walsh.