Subject: RE: What are the opt-in issues

From: Erik Nordmark <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 22:17:57 +0200 (CEST)

> Only after the document goes to the AD is it appropriate for the AD to
> consult the DNS directorate.

I wouldn't be surprised if one could fine extracts of various process
related RFCs that could be construed to support your statement.
Have you already done so?
But that doesn't mean it makes any sense.

If the ADs are limited to input only when a WG is chartered/re-chartered
and when the WG asks for a document to be published as an RFC then
we are much more likely to waste time then when there can be more of
a continious engagement.
An example of wasted time would be when the AD or the whole IESG sends
back a document telling the WG to basically start over e.g. because
they made the wrong assumptions about security.

So I think it is appropriate to apply common sense and not overly rigid 
application of rules, especially if we want to provide timely standards.

  Erik

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From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:08:04 -0700

>and when the WG asks for a document to be published as an RFC then

In fact, the idea that anyone is limited from talking with anyone else is 
just plain silly.

Certainly there is no precedent for such limitations in the IETF.  Since 
the IETF is about collaboration, there should be no place for prohibiting 
discussions, private or public.

But discussion is different from decision making.

So, the only serious questions that seems to be floating around is

         a) whether a chair has asserted working consensus inaccurately, or

         b) whether an AD has reversed a working group rough consensus 
decision without pursuing a reasonable collaboration with that working group.

I believe that the question of a) has been raised earlier today and awaits 
a response.

d/

----------
Dave Crocker <mailto:[email-masked]>
TribalWise, Inc. <http://www.tribalwise.com>
tel +1.408.246.8253; fax +1.408.850.1850

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 22:24:55 -0700

>> consult the DNS directorate.

this is drivel.  i can ask whomever i want for any advice i want any
time i want.  jeezus!