Subject: Re: What are the opt-in issues

From: Paul Vixie <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:20:25 -0700

> The IETF has procedures for challenging management actions.  The procedures 
> seem to work pretty well, except when they are not used.

as you know, i take your word as "gospel" on such matters, oh poised man.

> The procedures do not include calling for management changes on the working 
> group mailing list.

then a simple redirect to the proper process is all you need to send us.
(i.e., engaging phill in a debate here on namedroppers may not help much.)

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From: Paul Vixie <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 18:23:04 -0700

> >... we did not follow the official process in several ways.  number one,
> >meeting ... should've been announced ...; number two, detailed notes ...;
> >number three, ... should have been ... recommendations rather than ...
> >decisions adopted by the wg chairs and doc authors
> 
> ... I'll reiterate that I think that numbers one and two were not at all 
> problematic.
> 
> Number three is easily heeded and ought to permit the wg to move forward.

i disagree, since goal number three was explicitly stated, and methods one
and two were explicitly adopted in the furtherence of number three.  we did
a bad thing, and we did it on purpose, and we knew in advance that it was bad.

come to find out that's the same way a6/dname was dealt with, and now opt-in.

this isn't just sour grapes on my part as in "it's fine to break the rules
as long as you get my complicity in advance, which wasn't done for a6/dname
and this recent opt-in thing."  it's a simpler case of "i thought the chairs
both knew what the heck they were doing and it now turns out otherwise."

(i guess that'll be the last time anybody hands ME a secret decoder ring!)

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From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:03:46 -0700

>a bad thing, and we did it on purpose, and we knew in advance that it was bad.

Paul,

Indeed there might be an interesting discussion to have over in the poised 
world.  Your suggestion of a multi-working group pattern will be worth 
exploring there.

However I was not so much misunderstanding your previous point about a true 
conspiracy as I was  (and am) suggesting that we can get the Right Thing 
done now and move one, at least for the current effort.

That said, we are still left with no management guidance as to when the 
pending issues will be summarized for the working group, thought it has 
been a week since the group was told one would be produced.  For that 
matter, we do not know whether the RobRoy summary will be the full set of 
pending items.

d/

----------
Dave Crocker <mailto:[email-masked]>
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