Subject: RE: [newtrk] "Is IETF Primarily a Standards Organization?"

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:58:36 +0200

Keith,

> > This is somewhat of a curious statement - at least to me? What does
> > the IETF do to faclitate the running of the Internet - besides
> > making some technical standards and documents?
> 
> actually, quite a bit.  documents are our visible output, but a lot of 
> valuable things happen because IETF also serves as an informal 
> information conduit.

That is true for most other SDOs as well, though.  I have even heard that
side discussions and concensus building in bodies like the ITU have produced
value.

John

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:32:28 +0200

Hi John,

> >> In fact, the IETF thrives when it is not "normative", when it
> >> concentrates on producing solid specifications for Internet
> >> protocol & services, and on obtaining consensus among participants,
> >> so the consensus drives voluntary adoption.
> 
>    Christian used the word "normative" properly here; but IMHO this
> word mostly serves to obfuscate, and should be avoided.
> 
> > The IETF does not perform certification or enforcement activities,
> > so its pretty clear that IETF is not necessarily a "normative" 
> > SDO.
> 
>    John, alas, is not using "normative" correctly. "Normative" has
> nothing to do with "enforcement", and only the loosest connection to
> "certification".

What I meant was something closer to definition 3: 

  normative: based on or prescribing a norm or standard;

however, I am happy to avoid the term 'normative' in this discussion.

>    Thus, IMHO, Christian is stating that our best "standards" are
> exactly those that do not presume the existence of a "norm", but
> instead lay out in detail how to accomplish a basic structure (like
> TCP) and/or how to accomplish optional extensions to it -- and trust
> voluntary consensus to accomplish adoption of the best options.
> 
>    (I don't claim to be able to state Christian's ideas better than
> he can; but I do believe removal of the word "normative" helps. ;^)

I agree with your interpretation of Christian's ideas.  However, it
still leaves me scratching my head as to why the IETF is not a
'standards development organization' - the IETF makes standards
and documents relating to standards (Informational documents, for
the most part, related to standards).  Perhaps there is some
baggage with the term SDO that I am unaware of, which makes 
others, who have been active in the IETF much longer than myself,
uncomfortable with the term.

John

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